Darling warns blah blah something
Posted on
February 23, 2013 by
Chris Cairns
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The funny thing is that when it comes to the politics, even if he isn’t a doom-monger economically, John Kay has written approvingly about Better Togetherness. For example, his article in Prospect entitled Scotland would gain few benefits from going it alone that it cannot already get as part of the UK says pretty much what you’d expect it to based on the title.
But perhaps that’s not enough for Darling? Like Nick Clegg, he may want the arguments for independence to be annihilated. Can someone remind me, what is that comes after hubris traditionally?
To go off at a tangent – but an interesting one I hope – a mention of this article from back in 2011 caught my attention on Twitter today: A Town Without Poverty? Canada’s only experiment in guaranteed income finally gets reckoning. Wikipedia has a rather sketchy article on the Mincome scheme with some links although it isn’t mentioned in more obvious places.
Aye, we are all ‘doomed’. We are all going to expire.
So it goes. And it goes awfy awfy fast…
When I go, I want to know that my weans are living in a decent place. If we don’t vote ‘Yes’ then I hope to end my shift knowing that they’ve emigrated.
Sad, but true.
How often, in the past 300 years, have ‘Scottish’ parents drifted into the hereafter feeling likewise?
Nice to see you also going with a Dad’s Army theme today.
Cameron announces ‘increased aid’ for an independent Scotlandshire
http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/226-cameron-announces-increased-aid-for-an-independent-scotlandshire.html
Mere coincidence that a sex outrage ‘surfaces’ to hog the headlines in the MSM and deflect the body blow of the AAA bombshell?
Great cartoon Dud’s Army?
Henry McLeish reckons if we vote no, we will get nothing. Any chance the MSM will report this tomorrow?
AAAlistair Darling?
@Tyran: It’s Moody’s, not S&P or Fitch, so he’s been downgraded to Aa1stair (l33t) Darling.
I’ve had a fair bit of Lambrini, so not sure if this is out of order or not…
If we say Yes, and become ‘independent’, does that mean, in theory, maybe, possibly, the SG could nationalise at least a toty-wee-tiny bit of the Oil so that we don’t have to shell-out the equivalent of a mortgage every month just to run a small car?
Would we be able to do that? If so, why aren’t we howling it from every rooftop in the land?
Can’t help wondering: why is it we can’t foresee – and discuss – a scenario whereby our own oil derivatives are delivered to us at a price which isn’t reliant on the machinations of global markets?
Am I just pissed?
@ Ianbrotherhood
No, not pissed, just possibly living in Venezuela. Which is no bad thing. What’s the weather like? It’s shite here.
@David McCann
Henry McLeish has a very good grasp of the situation.
Showing him with an army uniform and a rifle is the real joke, he would be doing his version Flora MacDonald episode with Bonnie Prince Charlie!! if a YES vote happens.
WTF??
I’m in Venezuela?
That would explain why I don’t know these people, or what they’re saying.
BTW, the weather is balmy here right now, and it seems, from the antics of the bare-ass natives, that dawn is beckoning…
Thank fuck they sell their own version of Lambrini here – the equivelant of 15p a pint! (It’s a sort-of oil-derivative dontchaknow…)
Bottoms-up!
Steady, Ian.
Sunday morning is already here. I fear daybreak will bring unwanted gifts … heidwise.
Speaking for myself, the chill I caught at the ‘rally’ in Glasgow today (you know, I could’ve done with being kettled – would’ve warmed me up a bit) has been numbed with a Talisker or four and I shall now sleep it off.
Give my best to Hugo.
To my shame, I didn’t go, after exhorting others to do so.
Plain fact – I didn’t have enough dosh to get the train. Sad, but true. Ended-up going to the old dear’s – three hours painting the lobby and hall while listening to Off the Ball and Sportsound. Now? Full of Lambrini and regret in – roughly – equal measure.
We need to find other ways of getting together.
Perhaps disparate?
This is an awe-inspiring attempt at putting an anti-independence spin on a story.
You know those death machines we all want out of the Clyde? Well apparently if we become independent… We’ll be banned from having them! Oh no! Disaster!
m.scotsman.com/news/independent-scotland-faces-nuclear-arms-ban-1-2807469
@rev
O/T This little Peterkin gem of sly innuendo may be worthy of some of the vitriol which drips from your pen? http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/politics/extraordinary-life-of-top-snp-donor-rosheen-napier-1-2807497
Couple of other ‘interesting’ articles floating around. Matheson gets caught in a public car park and out of nowhere, comes an exlusive interview with Stephen Purcell! Who’d have thunk his rehabilitation (?) would have started right now?
Who, inter alia, talks about Scotland after independence. Is this realpolitik or kite flying?
Looks to me anyway as if there might be a leadership challenge in the offing.
“Talking exclusively to the Sunday Herald, he urged Glasgow to plan ahead for a possible Yes vote so that the city could capitalise on any benefits, including the thousands of jobs which could be created by new government departments.”
See here:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/the-return-of-steven-purcell.20316874
And COSLA want, through their Labour Chief, the role of Councils written into a constitution, if Scotland votes for independence.
Strange days.
I note that a couple of posters have mentioned Henry McLeish wasn’t McLeish in (1999) the very man who “quietly moved” England’s North Sea fisheries boundary 60 miles North thereby giving away Scotland’s legal rights to some 6000 sq mls of prime fishing waters to the English.
Yes unbelievable that in 1999 England made 6000 sq mls of Scotland’s Sea, English! Tell everyone that you know to tell everyone that they know. The Scottish Adjacent Boundaries Order (1999).
Off Topic, sort of anyway
Really looks like Mr McWhirter has come off the fence in the “Sunday” Herald. An interesting piece which agrees with my earlier post that the UK Economy has no solution to its problems.
Also
Venezuela is not the only place with almost free petrol/diesel for the masses. I lived in Kuwait for some time and the price of petrol is 60 fils/per litre, works out at about 13 pence.
Enjoy the Union Dividends !
Obliged if anyone could attempt to fill in the blank million spaces.
“It costs the 63.2 million population of the UK (£blank million) a day to be in the European Union”.
“It costs the 5.2 million population of Scotland (£blank million) a day to be in the UK Union”.
“It would cost an Independent Scotland (£blank million) a day to be in the European Union based on population size”.
Any particular reason you bring up John Kay, Angus? I have a lot of respect for him, after reading his book on embedded markets. His article states there may not be economic benefits from leaving the UK, but I thought the benefits were democratic and political. The Westminster democracy is ridiculous; isn’t Scottish independence meant to deliver proportional voting and freedom from the right-wing bias of England?
I’ve never travelled further north than the Yorkshire Moors (and I now live in Australia, but will be back someday) but Scottish independence excites me because it should be a) better for Scotland and b) a shock to rUK parliamentary democracy which could lead to it being modernised and reformed, perhaps with proportional representation and a written constitution. Economic issues are secondary.
On the issue of a Scottish Constitution.
It occurs to me that it should be made a criminal act for anyone to charge interest at above twice base rate. It occurs to me that banks should be our slaves and not our masters.
Cat, pigeons. etc?
Inbhir Anainn says:
Obliged if anyone could attempt to fill in the blank million spaces.
“It costs the 63.2 million population of the UK (£blank million) a day to be in the European Union”.
“It costs the 5.2 million population of Scotland (£blank million) a day to be in the UK Union”.
“It would cost an Independent Scotland (£blank million) a day to be in the European Union based on population size”.
This is by no means scientific and is calculated on the bits and bobs from wikipedia to the guardian. It doesn’t take spending in Scotland (block grant, EU grants) in to consideration either.
It cost roughly 43p per person per day in the UK to be in the EU (before EU grants)
It cost Scotland 74p per day per person to be part of the UK and in the EU (before UK block grant and EU grants).
I have no idea what it would cost an independent Scotland to be in the EU but if it was calculated on a % of population then it would about 4p-5p per person per day.
I’m sure someone can do a more scientific calculation. I’m just about to head out on the Yes campaign trail so don’t have time to go more in depth!
Someone please explain this to me in wee words – is it within the power of an independent nation to decide the price of its own natural resources?
‘Vote Yes? Unleaded will be set at 50p a litre for five years guaranteed.’
Is this scenario feasible?
Good article written by Andrew Wilson that Tris has on his blog. Mungiuns Republic:
http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/when-it-comes-to-benefits-what-does.html
ianbrotherhood says:
24 February, 2013 at 11:34 am
Someone please explain this to me in wee words – is it within the power of an independent nation to decide the price of its own natural resources?
‘Vote Yes? Unleaded will be set at 50p a litre for five years guaranteed.’
Is this scenario feasible?
To an extent yes. The government can set duty and VAT rates but in a free market economy the market dictates the price.
@rabb
The total tax take on a £1.40 litre of petrol is 86p, if my sums are correct. This means the true price is 54p.
Alex Salmond recently suggested the petrol price could be reduced by 50p.
You chaps seem to know your onions, so please help me out with another –
When I top-up, usually at the Morrison’s or get caught-short and am forced to use the dearer BP, where does the petrol that I put in the car actually come from? I know it’s a by-product, but where did the original ‘oil’ come from? Is it a mixture of stuff from all over, or can it be traced?
@ianbrotherhood
“Someone please explain this to me in wee words – is it within the power of an independent nation to decide the price of its own natural resources? ‘Vote Yes? Unleaded will be set at 50p a litre for five years guaranteed.’Is this scenario feasible?”
This is my understanding of the situation:
The amount of tax added to fuel is up to individual governments to set. That said there is the EU wanting to move towards similar levels of taxation across Europe, but that in effect is not set in stone. See BBC link for the price variations from last month.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21238363
On your second point, It might be feasible in simple ‘can it be done terms’ to have 50p per litre at the pumps, the reality in my mind is that other factors will come into play to prevent this from happening. It is very unlikely to see such a price for unleaded in an Independent western country. A 10p or 20p reduction per litre is more likely and would also be a welcome reduction for business as well as the nation in general. If we had fuel costs on per with some of our EU neighbours that would be a welcome start in my mind.
I am aware the SDA has a policy that unleaded petrol should retail for £1.00 per litre, as prices continue to rise I think that price point will have to rise also.
Fuel prices are something which annoy me as I spend a small fortune on fuel every month. As much as I would love American Tax rates on fuel I cannot see them being likely in the future.
@ianbrotherhood
The refinery is at Grangemouth, near Falkirk. I understand that the raw material is Brent crude which comes from the North Sea oilfields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Crude
Looks like this is a day for Mcwhirter’s thoughts, this time on independence and energy.
http://iainmacwhirter2.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/independence-warning-lights-will-go-out.html
Adrian B says:
24 February, 2013 at 12:16 pm
@ianbrotherhood
The refinery is at Grangemouth, near Falkirk. I understand that the raw material is Brent crude which comes from the North Sea oilfields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Crude
The UK as a whole consumes more oil than it produces so some of the oil is bought in from overseas and stockpiled.
That is why the UK is not an OPEC member. It has no control or influence in any way shape or form over the price of our oil.
Alistair Darling is 100% correct that the price of oil fluctuates and the UK has no direct control over it (other than illegal wars costing billions), however, he doesn’t tell you that Scotland could be an OPEC member in 2016 as it would be a net exporter of oil.
An independent Scotland being a net exporter would qualify for OPEC membership and therefore have a say on things like production levels etc and have an influence on price direction.
Remember, we have more oil than Kuwait who are OPEC members.
Another reson to vote Yes in 2014 🙂
@ Rabb,
Thanks for the OPEC connection – it had not occurred to me. If Scotland joined OPEC and raised the average 32% of duty/tax on a litre of fuel at the pumps then the price at the pumps would be dramatically better for consumers.
I do wonder why Norway hasn’t gone down this route however. Interesting subject which we can look at in more depth and detail at a later date however.
@leswil
“Showing him with an army uniform and a rifle is the real joke, he would be doing his version Flora MacDonald episode with Bonnie Prince Charlie!! if a YES vote happens.”
Well Charlie was a Darling as well 😉
Certainly a more appropriate metaphor than Grace Darling anyway.
He, having sunk the British economy, would be more likely to exert his efforts trying to sink the Scottish lifeboat.
@ianbrotherhood
“To my shame, I didn’t go”
I feel that as well even though I did give my reasons which were broadly similar to the Rev’s but also that I don’t think STV has been nearly so biased and didn’t want to see them tarred with a generic brush.
However I also shared the march (without comment) on FB and elsewhere.
Seems hypocritical I know, but not if your criterion is always to do what you think best for the cause.
Having made the decision that I can’t support it, the next best was that as many as possible went.
I fully understand where the thinking behind the ‘call for balance’ came from and how some can see that as the best thing for the cause, I just don’t agree with them. (While fully acknowledging they may be right and I may be wrong.)
@rabb
Thank you kindly for your response to my query.
I love the cartoon and the “yawn” comment”. I suppose you’ll be apologising to Darling now it turns out he was right all along in his warnings about the oil price? “Sorry Darling.”