Crowd surfing
As alert readers will know, we’re slacking off a bit over the holiday weekend, although today we’re hoping to combine pleasure with business – more on that later.
But we’d also like to have a go at getting you to do some work for us.
The Reference section of the site has been massively expanded in recent weeks, to include not only some articles with a particularly heavy basis in statistics and facts but also a large repository of documents from all sides of the debate and none – reports, manifestos, policy papers and the like, from the No camp as well as the Yes.
We’d like to add another new section to it, comprising what YOU think are the best pieces in the site’s 30-month history – and more specifically, the ones most likely to be persuasive to undecided voters. We’re aiming for a top 10 or top 20 of the posts that might be relatively light on stats and figures, but which you think make the most revealing or compelling arguments in favour of a Yes vote.
The problem with that is that most of you probably haven’t read them. The readership of the site has tripled in the last six months alone, which means that the large majority of you probably weren’t here when the bulk of our 2,300+ posts were published.
So we’d like to ask you to do something for us. This weekend, when you’re not out rolling Easter eggs (is that still a thing people do) or taking advantage of the unusually sunny weather to try to absorb a whole Scottish year’s worth of Vitamin D in one day, have a dig through our history.
Type a subject you’re interested in into the Search box (remember to put quote marks around it if it has more than one word, eg “currency union”), or click one in the “tag cloud” in the right-hand sidebar, or use the “Select Month” drop-down box in the same column to just randomly read articles from January 2013, or any other time before you started visiting the site.
(Veteran readers who’ve been here since the beginning are of course also very much welcome to suggest their favourite pieces.)
If and when you stumble across something you think is particularly good, just post the title and/or link into the comments box on this page. The stuff you like best will be added to the Reference section so new readers can get straight to it from the “New readers start here” post that’s now permanently pinned to the top of the front page.
There are just five months to go until the referendum, and a lot of people are only just starting to really pay attention. They can’t be expected to wade through two-and-a-half years of writing to catch up, so it’s time to start whittling things down to the essence. And to do that, we need your help.
This one turned my head Stu..
http://wingsoverscotland.com/on-our-own-two-feet/#more-46359
Off the top of my head …..
This one
http://wingsoverscotland.com/unleashing-a-firestorm/
and this one
http://wingsoverscotland.com/joining-the-euro-for-idiots/
The both put a lie to BT claims and let folks know the truth.
More than happy to do this. I’ve been an avid reader from almost the start when someone elsewhere had linked to the site. I was immediately hooked with the style and content of the articles. I rarely comment but read and learn from here every day. It is now my main point of reference when speaking to undecideds, but is becoming more difficult to find the right articles to link to so this is a fantastic idea.
I’m on long back shifts this weekend but will do what I can in between (and when skiving at work 😉 )
One of the most important and scariest –
http://wingsoverscotland.com/?s=nhs
The recent one from Doug on the EU caught my eye, it was good to see the ‘weaker voice in the EU’ stuff disproved.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/something-fishy/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/claimed-in-full/
Claimed in full.
The first article in the serialisation of the book Claim of Scotland is a great place for ‘undecideds’ to start; reading all the subsequent chapters of it will be an eye-opener.
This: http://wingsoverscotland.com/lies-damned-lies-and-tories/#more-45932
It’s got quite a lot of facts and figures, but don’t under-estimate people’s desire for that. Better Together and BBC et al over-simplify to the point of offensiveness – one of the things I find really good about the pro-sites is that they don’t assume ignorance. You should play to that strength.
It would good to see Pensions included into the mix:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/rainy-day-blues/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/growing-older/
Wonder if I can jump in on this getting folks to do something for me lark.
The Yes Saltire project has less than a week to go, and still a fair bit to raise.
I am going out for bit of that vitamin D stuff, just hoping its as nice in the Stonehaven as Lanarkshire as I’ve got a tough ‘No’ mate to crack for Easter.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/10-000-flags-for-yes–11/x/2353157#home
I always remembered his one from just over a year ag0:
Just checking
http://wingsoverscotland.com/just-checking/
I had no internet at the point where the Claim of Scotland articles were being published, and only caught the first three chapters. For someone who doesn’t really read history, these were a huge eye-opener and very interesting reading, I could hardly wait for each next instalment. Havent had time to chase them up in the archives though so I would like these articles to be included, as I think that if they were interesting to a non-history buff like me, and got me mad angry, then I should think they would have a similar effect for many people who don’t know much of the background to the independence movement, especially those who have been brainwashed by the brit/one nation movement.
Sowing Seeds is a powerful recent article, I think. More to come when I’ve refreshed my memory!
tartanpigsty, I commented today on an older thread, I donated the tiny amount I could afford today towards the 10000 flags – hope you reach your target, and am looking forward to seeing the country awash with yes saltires this summer.
This one definitely deserves another run-out:
wingsoverscotland.com/quotes-of-the-year-2013-box-set/#comments
It might be an idea to put them into categories instead of top 10/20 as there are several great articles for each category. Anyway my nomination http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-barnett-trap-and-the-expensive-lunch/
There have been some belters Rev Stu, real tear to the eye stuff sometimes, but the cartoons add caliber too. I know it wasn’t universally approved of, but I felt the exposure of Better Together’s invisible legions at the railway stations really hit home. Not my favourite article, but a blunt instrument that hit them where it hurt. I actually think that was the watershed when they started to take you seriously.
My favourite article in terms of best entertainment? 500 questions debunked. Best comment – Will we have to fry our Mars Bars in lard because the oil is so volatile in an independent Scotland? Still chuckling yet…
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-gingerbread-robbery/
I think any on the most important subjects, NHS, pensions, economy, finance and how Scotland is ripped off being part of the union. People (who are not engaged in the referendum) have to know what a NO vote really means and the YES solutions to union woes.
Hope versus fear.
Then there was this…
Friends like these #2
http://wingsoverscotland.com/friends-like-these-2/
Scott Minto’s articles about pensions & the NHS deserve to be on any shortlist.
Basically all of mine.
Breach of eketoral commission rules?
No mention of their bing aligned with BT
http://m.scotsman.com/business/management/john-cridland-why-businesses-should-vote-no-1-3381682
First stage. Second stage would be a wee bit of balanced reporting:
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-stv-quits-cbi-over-no-stance-1-3381858
I’ve got these two stories in my favourites as they were particularly powerful for me when I read them. My fave favourite is the first one, by Scott Minto:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-death-of-the-social-contract/#more-42357
http://wingsoverscotland.com/joining-the-dots/
Am I allowed to include the one that fair cheers me up after a bad week of media onslaught?
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-short-straw/
Shipbuilding:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/battleships-and-bunkum/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/lies-lies-lies-lies-lies/
Like all of Westminster, Labour in Scotland say Trident and £100+ billion son of Trident stays in Scotland so vote NO, saving 21 thousand jobs or we’ll bayonet you
according to Ian Davidson Labour MP for Govan
http://wingsoverscotland.com/trident-to-be-moved-to-mars/
I think all the articles on here are excellent. (obvs)
However, I wonder if there are any current WOS readers who started off as undecideds or even NOs, who have read articles on this site that converted them to YES, but perhaps don’t comment yet. If so, a note of the articles that did it for them would be invaluable.
I remember there were at least 2 (?) that were written by those who have travelled the road from No/Undecided to YES, but can’t remember the exact article titles.
I also think that headers e.g.:
Euro
Pensions
Banking
Pound
Borders
etc would make the articles easier for newcomers to find their specific area of query.
I think something that would be amazingly useful, and the first thing I would point people towards, would be a list of the scare stories and myths (not the stupid ones that we incredulously laugh at, but the ones which are plausible and make people anxious), and the sourced debunking facts refuting them.
Or if this resource already exists somewhere that I’ve missed* (on this site or elsewhere) then please point us towards it.
*which is entirely possible!
Orkney and Shetland Islands independence
http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-new-flag-for-scotland/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/pity-not-hate/
I honestly can’t remember any bad articles on this site, you and your contributors have penned some wonderful pieces. Lots of hard work and effort have gone into them, especially the deconstruction of the claims of the Better Together camp, which of course turned out to be lie, after lie.
Well to everyone who submitted an article, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed them all.
These two articles by Julie McDowell are a must.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/sunshine-on-maryhill/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/london-calling/
I was out door chapping in Mastrick today, and I tried my new technique of trying to get someone to admit they WANT Scotland to be independent, but just aren’t sure we can afford it – which as far as I’m concerned is the only thing stopping this being an absolute walkover.
So, with that in mind, I think Scott’s one about Scotland paying more in debt repayments than it needs to is a pretty essential one: http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-angels-share/
Article by Paul Kavanagh
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-gingerbread-robbery/
I think this article on the Barnett consequentials raised important points. Many people who vote note ASSUME that means status quo as regards to funding for Holyrood.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-barnett-future/
Weird display by angry racist of the Guardian here http://wingsoverscotland.com/no-jocks-please-were-british/ Progressive liberal Toynbee telling presenter Andrew Neil that “even were Scotland to vote No in September’s independence referendum, it would be unthinkable for any Scot to ever again lead a UK political party, or hold any of the great offices of state.”
Shudder to think of noble and honest teamGB media bettertogetherBBC reaction if anyone in Scotland had said that about anyone in England. As such, Andrew Neil(sponsored by grecian2000) could only agree but he was ok though, right Polly?
@AlanMacd – I was about to put in Julie’s Sunshine on Maryhill as I had bookmarked it at the time but see you have put it in so I second it 🙂
To me this has been the most useful article to show the democratic deficit within the union and how little impact Scottish MPs make on the composition of the UK Government: http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/
Nor sure if mentioned elsewhere, but note that STV Group have resigned membership of CBI
Reasons given were on grounds to maintain impartiality
I may have an old list. Is the Royal Bank of Scotland still in CBI Scotland?
I’m still concerned some last minute panic on the part of the no campaign could bring about some sort new improved devo nano. With that in mind there’s no harm in getting the vote no get nothing through to people.
Any one of the articles a seach for ‘devo max’ turns up are worth a read http://wingsoverscotland.com/?s=devo+max
But to narrow it down. I’d go for these
http://wingsoverscotland.com/devo-max-supporters-for-independence/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-mushroom-farm/
Dont miss they Westminster debates or should be rubbish Scotland abuse Jim Hood MP & all the rest of the Labour MPs
anybody with Ipads should have them to show friends n family, & If your out on Yes stalls be a handy reference strait from the horses mouth.
How about, a new award … The Wings Over Scotland Monthly Award for Outstanding and Unbiased Journalism. Take nominations and let your readers vote for the winning story. Imagine, just imagine, the likes of the Telegraph actually producing something worthy of such an accolade!
I like the post entitled “the myth of multilateralism”
galamcennalath
Imagine, just imagine, the likes of the Telegraph actually producing something worthy of such an accolade!
Strong sunshine and drink are a dangerous mix… time tae lie down.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9067-indy-group-declares-victory-after-cbi-announces-official-backing-for-no
This certainly cheered me up no end.
Apologies if posted elsewhere.
O/T. Sorry if already posted, previously.
An interesting interview of Alex Salmond, in the New York Times, where an ex Scotsman newspaper editor rubbishes independence, Magnus Linklater tells the NYT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/world/europe/alex-salmond-scottish-independence.html?_r=0
heres one I liked
wingsoverscotland.com/identity-parade/#comments
Only 25 minutes left before I lose that tenner I wagered last night – come on!
Surely there’s a business-person out there who will now have to cancel CBI membership after their daft decision yesterday. Why not do it here? It would be great advertising.
Go on – before 6.00 pm, please…
Heres one
http://wingsoverscotland.com/chinese-democracy/#comments
Hopefully someone will post a list of British firms that stay in the CBI.
I can add them to my list of folk that don’t get my money.
@fiona,
The Claim of Scotland.
You can download the complete book here;
Kindly provided by a hard working Winger. (Alba4eva if I mind right)
http://www.scotspot.net/
In .pdf format.
Is there any way of finding out the accounts of
CBI Scotland, & if any moneies actually come from Scotish
buisness menbership,or is this another way of them putting
in funds from England.lets keep our eyes on the money trail.
Sos about the spelling folks needing a liedoon.
There’s lots to choose from but an article on Scotland’s wealth is a good one.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/information-retrieval/
CBI SCOTLAND ANNUAL DINNER 2014
“It is the perfect opportunity for you to mingle with over 800 senior leaders from business, politics and the media and to bring some of your existing and prospective clients to be part of this informative and enjoyable evening. A night of top-quality networking and intelligence gathering is guaranteed, allowing you to make many new contacts.”
“As in previous years, CBI Scotland has secured a prestigious Guest of Honour to address you, but we are not able to announce this until nearer the time because of security reasons.”
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/cbi-scotland-annual-dinner-thursday-28-august-2014-tickets-10870823927
Guest of Honour Betting Odds:
20/1 Douglas Fraser, BBC
10/1 Andrew Parker, MI5 Director General
5/1 George Osborne
3/1 David Cameron
2/1 Hassan Nasrallah, leader of the Shi’a Islamic resistance movement Hezbollah
2/7 Ian Murray MP
Pretty much everything. Thanks for opening my eyes.
So many good articles and suggestions already. The ones I found are already mentioned above.
I think articles that explain things, e.g. British passports / dual citizenship, borders, EU membership and Euro, Pensions, GERS and Scotland’s financial position are good for undecideds.
Undecideds will have heard all the claims, counter claims, “you lie”, “they lie”, etc. Best not to go for articles that highlight lies and then set out the proof (which obviously meet a valuable, immediate and ongoing need).
I would think most undecideds are already aware of the contentious claims in the debate. They are probably fed up with some of them. We don’t want them switching off or turning away on the basis of more “they lied” articles.
I think the articles that explain principles and policy positions will build and help earn TRUST in the Yes stance on some key topics.
It would be good if we could get some genuine don’t knows to check the articles that we are posting in this thread to see what ones make them go WTF. The Lord Naw Naw’s are never going to shift and most of the soft no’s just want to be assured that life will actually carry on after a yes vote
Alex Salmonds letter to David Cameron
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-power-of-six/
@G.Campbell – thoosan tae wan – Rev Stuart Campbell
@ Ian Brotherhood – Ian do STV count. They have cancelled membership, so I believe.
@Ian – Aye twenty14’s right, STV had it on their news bulletin at 5:35 so spend the tenner oan a cheeky wee bottle of red(or white)
This is a list of CBI Scotland Members posted two years ago on NNS.
2012-01-23 11:59
CBI Members scotland
Universities
Robert Gordon University
Glasgow Caledonian University
College of Arts and Social Sciences (part of Dundee University)
GU Holdings Ltd (commercial arm of Glasgow University)
Quangoes and similar
VisitScotland
Skills Development Scotland
SQA
Scottish Enterprise
Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework Partnership
Investors in People Scotland
Business Stream (part of Scottish Water)
SECC (91% owned by Glasow Council)
TIE (Edinburgh’s favourite tramline layer)
Trade Bodies
Food Trade Association Management
Graphic Enterprise Scotland
Homes for Scotland
Publishing Scotland
Scottish Building Federation
SELECT
The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland
The Scotch Whisky Association
BID district
Essential Edinburgh
Branches or Subsidiaries
AG Holdings
Conoco Phillips
Heineken
ISS Facility Services Ltd
UPM-Kymmene
Weber Shandwick
Companies (split into business sectors)
Banks and financial inc insurance and investment
AEGON UK
Airdrie Savings Bank
Alliance Trust
Clydesdale Bank
Royal Bank of Scotland Group
Standard Life
Engineering
Weir Group
Imes Group Holdings
Jacobs
Balmoral Group Holdings
Hydrasun Ltd
PR & Consultants, etc
BiP Solutions
Chance Associates
Core Solutions Group
Eglinton
Glen Abbot Ltd
Indigo
James Barr
Kynesis
Laura Gordon Associates
Liddell Thomson
Millstream Associates
Munro Consulting
SI Associates
Gupta Partnership
Energy, Oil and Marine
Aquamarine Power
Cairn Energy
Flexitricity
Lithgows
Scottish Power
Wood Group Management Services
Lawyers
Ledingham Chalmers
Maclay, Murray & Spens
MacRoberts
McGrigors
Morton Fraser
Shepherd and Wedderburn
Property
Elphinstone Holdings
Lochay Investments
Townhead Properties
Construction & Supplies
WF Watt (Contracts)
Miller Group
Stewart Milne Group
McAlpine & Co
Mactaggart & Mickel
The rest
Devro (food wrappers)
FirstGroup
Havelock Europa (furniture)
Henry Winning & Co (string & twine)
ICS (education)
John G Russell (transport)
Kube Networds (telecom)
M Computer Technologies
Memex Technologies (electronic shop equipment)
Morris Leslie Group (various)
Scottish Leather Group
STV Group
Coverdale Organisation (training)
Edrington Group (distillers)
Skene Group (hotels)
Tomatin Distillery
Tullis Russell Group (paper)
So there you have it – the membership of CBI Scotland
“Robert Gordon University is a member of the CBI and we intend to continue. While we understand the organisation’s position on #indyref, we are not in the CBI because of constitutional issues. In this case we do not support its position and will remain neutral on #indyref”
https://twitter.com/RobertGordonUni
The two I’ve found most useful and memorable are . .
Into the Arms of Yes by Cath Ferguson
http://wingsoverscotland.com/into-the-arms-of-yes/
and
Why only independence can save our NHS by Scott Minto
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-only-independence-can-save-our-nhs/
(I’ve actually added a direct link to the NHS article from one of may latest indyposterboy flyers, so you’ll maybe notice a wee spike in traffic to it.
See http://www.indyposterboy.info/news.asp?intent=viewstory&newsid=61485
(the http://www.yesinformed.com/nhs is a shortened URL pointing to it)
@Caz-M, noo ur you sure you,ve no missed anybody oot,
well done that man, tammy doffed tae You.
@Colin – shared the NHS flyer on facebook, this is what will sway the undecided’s. good stuff
It wisnae me Squarehaggis.
I remember Stu running a serial on the book chapter by chapter.
G. Campbell surely that statement from RGU cannot be accepted as a get-out-of- jail-free card. Every time a CBI rep is on TV dissing Scotland, they will in effect be representing and speaking for RGU, unless there is a disclaimer beforehand and I can see that happening, NOT.
IMO RGU must withdraw from CBI, or be seen as naysayers to indy.
I see the Stewart Milne Group is on the list.
Hopefully Stu will stop supporting Aberdeen?
Ronnie
I posted the CBI list on the previous post as well.
I think Ian Brotherhood was also want a wee look at some of the names on it.
As a fairly new reader, I have been hugely impressed by the articles – and many of the comments – for the evidence they offer. I don’t claim to have been undecided but I have certainly wanted reassurance that my decision to vote yes, and persuade my newly voting teens to do the same, is sane and rational rather than purely instinctive and emotional. WoS has, without doubt, been my most important source of ‘the other side of the story’.
I agree that assertion and counter assertion, in the absence of facts, is not helpful – though it might make for an entertaining rammy! What I have found most useful are articles which acknowledge that iScotland will (probably) not be utopia but demonstrate, perhaps from experience in other countries, how problems can be overcome and show that an independent Scotland would be a perfectly normal state of affairs.
I’ve got my evening’s reading sorted out now as I go through all the suggestions already posted. Thanks all.
O/T STV have resigned from CBI, they say they have to be impartial!!!!
@jinglyjangly – Yeh! does that mean no more Pia pished talking pish..
I am lookin at that Skene Group(Hotels), but cant see any hotels.
Does anyone know anything about them?
We will just need to go through the CBI Scotland List name by name and see what info we come up with.
Don’t let these scumbags think they can hide behind their CBI masters.
The Financial Times article from Feb 2014 with the data on GDP etc.
Why don’t the Yes campaign use CBI strategy and declare asap that they have won the referendum.
No need for an actual vote. Just need to say they are “confident” people in Scotland give them the mandate.
This approach saves so much admin – no need for facts and/or details. Just think the time unions will save – no need for ballots or anything like that. Just a touchy feely “confidence” that journalists will go along with and not ask awkward questions.
Sorry Alba4eva, it was in fact Albamac.
Close, but not quite 🙁
I see Stu already took the precaution of preserving the book in one full handy download here:
http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/TheClaimOfScotlandFull.pdf
The whole ‘Railway Series by Rev. W.S. Campbell’ deserves attention as a demonstration of the power of a crowd of ordinary people acting in concert.
Viz. ‘The Honesty Patrol’ through to ‘The Tumbleweed Express’ in January 2014.
Every single Wingser was present in the comments doing their bit.
Naturally, Stu.
This is the first Wings article I read, and the one that hooked me on the site:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-bannockburn-myth/
This is the first that moved me to comment (even if it was a really stupid comment):
http://wingsoverscotland.com/just-checking/
And this is the one that seems to be most commonly bandied around whenever people bring up the “only Scots can save the UK from the Tories” canard:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/
It’s amazing how so many of the same old arguments trotted day-in day-out were skewered within the site’s first month (really, all the posts from April 2010 are quite excellent, though I may be swayed by the 900-MILE HIGH GIANT SPACE DINOSAUR):
http://wingsoverscotland.com/they-dont-they-dont-speak-for-us/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-the-unemployed-are-the-new-paedophiles/
A few more I like from the pre-referendum days:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-dogs-of-war/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/we-are-at-war-with-eastasia/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-want-devo-max/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/everyone-in-britain-is-a-moron/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/who-are-the-tartan-tories/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/scotland-and-you/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-new-flag-of-the-united-kingdom/
‘Power of six’ is definitely an eye opener…as are the articles dealing with the NHS. As someone who used to work in the NHS, I was certain that privatisation of the NHS in England would not affect the NHS here. That was before I read Scott Minto’s articles and began properly to understand the implications of Barnett consequentials.
I suspect a significant proportion of undecided and no voters will not appreciate this risk to a favourite and vital public service.
One of my favourites is:
Article on How Scotland is paying Westminster’s Debts
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-angels-share/
This is from a list I keep of useful articles, many of which aren’t from Wings. Why restrict ourselves just to Wings links?
Just had a look on CBI Scotland’s website for the first time and found they had a section on the referendum, consisting of what they laughingly refer to as “factsheets”, not for employERS but for employEES. So, I read through them and was appalled at the spin they’ve put on them. An example is stating that the Scottish Government anticipates membership of the EU within 18 months, which is true, but then adding their own heavy spin by stating, in brackets, that it took Croatia 10 years, implying the government is wrong and that Scotland will be out of the EU for many years, causing business chaos.
Why does CBI Scotland prepare referendum factsheets for other people’s employees anyway? Have a read…it’s quite shocking.
@caz-m
We could all take some names from that CBI list and play some bingo, see who’s companies all leave first
squarehaggis, many thanks for download link – and to Alba4eva for supplying it. Tried to buy the book but by the time I got onto amazon, the only copy left cost a fortune! all you wosers are too quick for me, lol
@Caz-M, Visit Scotland & other couple receive funding from
Scottish Gov, if thats the case I suggest we Email our MSPs
From Nov 27, 2013, this video of “The Wright Show” about Scottish Independence, hosted by Richard Madeley, to remind Scots just how “loved” we are by our fellow Brits. Katie Hopkins turns the nastiness up to 11; Ronni Ancona trying to pretend she’s, like, a NotScot, ok yah; and the two guys just being unthinkingly dismissive.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/welcome-to-the-debate/
Also, I second Croompenstein’s vote for John Jappy’s Dec 22, 2013 article, which totally destroys the “subsidy junkie” myth:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/on-our-own-two-feet/
Ok Thanks to Albamac, and also to Stu for the entire book on pdf, now downloaded and saved. I will enjoy from cover to cover at my leisure now. Next problem – how does a person become a WOSer (in time to join one of these excellent sounding meet-ups)?
I see the Stewart Milne Group is on the list.
Hopefully Stu will stop supporting Aberdeen?
To be fair, Aberdeen will always be Aberdeen but Stewart Milne will always be a fanny!
fiona – ‘how does a person become a WOSer’?
Answer: You’re here, ergo you’re a WOSer. 🙂
Therefore welcome at all the WOS socials.
@caz-m, Croompenstein –
Great links and info.
Sadly for me, I lose. Not one of those companies bothered to take the opportunity to use this space to declare their detachment from CBI.
Quelle dommage…
Now, I have to put £20 on the Yes vote being 55%+.
I shall do so on Monday. The winnings go into Ronnie’s Raffle pot.
Well, as members of CBI Scotland, I wonder if these employers on the list are happy to endorse the information on the CBI’s referendum factsheets for their employees.
Would it be disingenuous of me to suggest that if Robert Gordon University remains a member of CBI Scotland, it is, in effect, endorsing this information for university employees? How can you say, as an employer, that you are neutral whilst remaining a member of an organisation which provides biased information to the people who work for you?
Ronnie
Everybody is a bit mixed up tonight, we are all jumpin between this post and the last post.
What post are we meant to be on.
Jeannie – with you on this but feel we have to get the SG depts/agencies to withdraw and lead by example, otherwise those like RGU will just say, well if it’s good enough for SG to be signed up to CBI …….
Interesting, Scottish Skier get ready:
From SNP’s Ken Pringle:
Looking forward to two new #indyref polls out tomorrow – one in @scotonsunday and another in the @Sunday_Post. #buyapaper
@Ian Brotherhood, given it was a Frid and the start of a
Holiday weekend, I did,nt have much confidence in your bet
by Thurs coming the situation will have changed, keep the
keep the £20 in your pocket theres nae need tae add to the
raffle bet.
@caz-m – Everybody is a bit mixed up tonight, we are all jumpin between this post and the last post
Think we’re meant to be trawling the Wings archives to come up with a definitive list that we can present to the DK’s who will decide our fate. In reality..just 2 lumps of ice in my Balvenie hen and bring through thae dry roasted I’m a bit peckish..
Anything with the “lizards” tag.
e.g.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-wrong-lizards/#more-18691
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-austerity-is-forever/#more-36302
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-pride-of-britain/#more-38200
http://wingsoverscotland.com/you-have-a-choice/#comments
God, now I’m bloody furious. Must go and have some chocolate and calm down.
Srsly though, people need to get angry. The posts linked above make me determined to win.
@TJenny
– agreed, but would also add that the universities are also, essentially, funded by the taxpayer, which includes the very people who work for them.
I think the only credible option for “neutral” organisations would be to withdraw their membership of the CBI until such time as the CBI officially withdraws its support from Better Together. They can’t have it both ways.
@ronnie –
Understood, and appreciated, but I will be in there at the local Ladbrokes with that £20 on Monday.
I’ll go in mid-afternoon, when it’s likeliest the manager will be about. The same guy who gave me the five-minute rant about why ‘yes’ is such a lost cause.
Last time I saw him, he was taking your raffle dosh at 5/1. When he accepts another £20, and has to check ‘what computer says’, I want to witness the movement of his facial muscles when he sees how short the odds now are.
That in itself has got to be worth the £20. And to see that same puddin’ face when he clocks me walk through the door on Sep 19th?
Priceless…
I’d recommend anything by Scott Minto, for example:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-same-old-song/
and
http://wingsoverscotland.com/spending-20-to-save-a-tenner/
Ian, why not provide your own impression? 🙂
http://artforkidshub.com/how-to-draw-a-parrot/
Jeannie- agreed – what would be the best way to get them to withdraw though? Email the SG/Electoral Commission or directly to RGU?
A story of what is almost certainly a shared experience, that may change Scotland’s future.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-essay-cybernats-are-made-not-born/
O/T I see that on the SNP website they are looking forward to two new opinion polls out tomorrow in Scotland on Sunday and the Sunday Post. Assume they are positive if they’re looking forward to them.
@Ian Brotherhood awe Ian yer a waxer,you’ll hiv him voteing
Yes next lol.
TJenny
I don’t want to clog this thread up, but I wonder if the local education authorities could insist the universities withdraw? In fact, I wonder if local authorities would be compelled to do this with anyone they provide funding to, etc.?
This could be huge.
@Caz-M, Ah didna ken you played the trumpet
but its a bit to early tae play the last post.
Sunday Herald tweet says Scottish Enterprise, VisitScotland and STV have all quit the CBI with more expected to follow.
Sunday Herald front page:
https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/457629392022536193/photo/1
Just love that Herald headline LOL. Another purchase from me.
Hey People, do you know of this?
http://www.yesonair.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=68
@TJenny
Apologies – am on the wrong thread right enough – I keep getting distracted by this mad film about a pirate radio station in the 60’s, complete with the relevant music.
I’m no expert on unis, though did work at one for a while, but it’s not unusual for students to take a position on something that affects employees, e.g. they demonstrated on behalf of lecturers’ pay rises. Or maybe writing to the Principal/Vice-Chancellor or the University Court is appropriate? Some posters on Wings work at Unis so could maybe advise us. I have a trade union contact who deals with unis – she might have some advice on this since it concerns employees.
@Marcia – Nice one – Theres been a murrrderrrr
I see Visit Scotland is on the list as well.
They have their own Freedom of Information page.
Worth making contact with, regarding their CBI membership.
http://www.visitscotland.org/about_us/our_policies/freedom_of_information.aspx
Yippee – CameronB, Jeannie, Elizabeth + Marcia – seems like the CBI exodus is already on the march. 🙂 This must make RGU’s position untenable, no?
@CameronB, how dey ah know aboot Visochi’s, ah did get aboot you know Lochee/St Marys/Hilltoon/Cairdie’s/Clerkie’s
bakery/Palias/Mrs Kidds pub Lochee main st/George Kidds pub
Strathmore bar,Strathmartine/DudhopeSt/church st/Kirkton/Downfield/Mid Graigie,does that answer the ? lol
an ma Eldest Daughter wiz born in DRI.
Marcia
That Sunday Herald headline has changed everything.
We will have to start putting highlighter through all these companies on the list that are pulling out of CBI Scotland.
Is anybody keepin the score here.
@Marcia –
Good headline in SH.
Lost me £20, but don’t have to eat me own chin.
Result!
@CameronB an when ah phoned fur the ambulance when ma Wife,s water broke I asked the operator fur the West of Scotland Ambulance service! I furgoat where ah wiz.
ronnie anderson
See what happens when you underestimate a man of the world. 😉
I’m really not trying to be teachers pet, but shall we have this chat on the previous thread. Leave this one for article suggestions?
@Ian – Lost me £20, but don’t have to eat me own chin
Thank God, you would end up looking like Torcuil Chrichton and FFS nae buddy wants that
Kate Hopkins & Richard Madley vids.
When are all the members of those Unions who signed up to BT without consultation, going to make a stand too.
As a relatively new wings reader (January) I’m finding some of these links to older articles fascinating, but to be honest I’ve had to stop reading because what has been done to our wonderful country and it’s people is just so desperately sad.
We have to win this.
The very idea of the crimes that have been done to our country continuing, and indeed the wrongs accelerating, simply breaks my heart.
If Scotland says no I will have to leave. We must have a yes.
Thank you to everyone who has shared these links, even as a definite yes the flood of information on this site is somewhat overwhelming.
It’s not got a single statistic in it, and the words Salmond, Lamont, Darling, Labour or the phrases “SNP”, “Currency Union” or “Better Together” don’t appear once, but this is the piece that immediately sprung to my mind as probably the best article on this site (a title that is hotly contested).
http://wingsoverscotland.com/where-the-heart-is/
It sums up what this is really all about, for me.
bunter
I took great pleasure in phoning up the GMB Union and telling them I was finished with them and to take all information they had on me from their database.
@bunter –
Good point.
Some of dem high-heid yin Union fellas must be getting the wibbly-wobblies – dem’s no strangers to the likes of yer CBI gatherings, even if they’re ‘ostensibly’ just at that £250-quid a plate dinner for ‘information-gathering’, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, glug-glug-glug (barrp!), say no more…
This one keeps things simple for those that don’t believe we subsidise London
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-gingerbread-robbery/
CameronB – agreed, we should continue any comments on CBI on the ‘Sultans of Swing’ thread.
@CameronB –
Hey mister, let it be – come on over to Off-topic and spin some tunes eh?
Let Rev sort it out – that’ll larn him to have a night off. Bloody sponger if you ask me!
I’m just about to post a YT belter, for Paula and Thepnr – tried last night, but it wouldn’t let me…
So much information on this site ma heid hurts, I’ve given up on telly news & papers, newspapers have been a constant through my life since I was 11yo. The BBC a most trusted scource on everything,hard habit to break. If It wasn’t for WOS I would hate to think where we would be, the laughs, the daily cast list, you know who you are.The almost instantaneous lie destruction & analysis from all involved. it makes me feel proud of all us WOSsers, lurkers or posters, knowing that the MSM & The Better Together lot, no matter their establishment backing will never prevail with the insidious mince they pedal about our Nation. WOS gives you the facts. You decide
Scott Minto’s articles are always well written & the links as in all the articles on the site,are worth a click
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-death-of-the-social-contract/#more-42357
Derk Bateman’s current blog ” I am a nationalist” is very welcome indeed
Front page of the Sunday Herald worth a look. Nice STV/CBI Taggart parody.
Scotland on Sunday front page:
https://twitter.com/PeterMurrell/status/457650060705427456/photo/1
Front page Scotland on Sunday
https://twitter.com/scotonsunday/status/457648996287127552/photo/1
Pity there are no figures given in the SoS front page, as their last poll had a gap of 7% then it must be even closer.
WOW – BfS have played a blinder.
All those Scottish companies resigning from CBI has to ruin their reputation.
Brilliant Herald front page – will def buy tomorrow.
Crowd surfing. The articles surrounding Anas Sarwar’s awolness last year regarding the vote on the bedroom tax, where he abstained from voting by calling a ‘paired vote’, after so animatedly insulting Nicola, Scotland’s legally elected Deputy First Minister.
What did ewes think about that lady lurkers / commenter’s?
This pairing vote scenario and subsequent debatage on Wings and other mediums, I believe, was an eye-opener for the non-political but interested enough people and for me marked one of the many earlier lifts in the YES campaign.
Have a smashin’ weekend one and all.
I believe the McCrone report did it for me, how can our elected representatives hide this information?
Therefore;
wingsoverscotland.com/the-sunshine-underground/#more-44539
Scotland on Sunday poll
(excluding Undecideds)
Yes 48%
No 52%
Poll results SoS,
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/referendum-race-on-knife-edge-as-no-support-slides-1-3382125
I notice that in the ICM poll, Scots born respondents are 42% to 40% in favour of independence.
Scotland on Sunday poll
(excluding Undecideds)
Yes 48%
No 52%
Marcia
Now that is getting close
🙂
Continuing membership of the EU:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/dear-the-eu/
and especially the link to the Westminster report
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmfaff/writev/643/m05.htm
In the debate on Scottish independence it is natural that opponents tend to exaggerate the difficulties of EU membership, while proponents tend to minimise them. This note tries to address the subject as objectively as possible. In summary it argues that:
· Arrangements for Scotland’s EU membership would need to be in place simultaneously with independence
· Scotland’s 5 million people, having been members of the EU for 40 years; have acquired rights as European citizens
· For practical and political reasons they could not be asked to leave the EU and apply for readmission
· Negotiations on the terms of membership would take place in the period between the referendum and the planned date of independence
· The EU would adopt a simplified procedure for the negotiations, not the traditional procedure followed for the accession of non-member countries
Also the study by the Politique Étrangère carried out by the former chief of staff of the French Minister of European Affairs explaining that neither an independent Scotland or Catalonia could be blocked from the EU:
http://www.vilaweb.cat/noticia/4165817/20140108/french-study-questions-whether-catalonia-could-be-expelled-from-the-european-union.html
He says requiring negotiations for membership would mean excluding Catalonia and Scotland from the Union temporarily, which Gounin dismisses as unrealistic. And he questions the impact that the creation of borders in Catalonia would have on the whole of Europe.
—He goes over the concept of ‘interior enlargement’ to explain that the admittance of a state that has never formed part of the EU cannot be compared with the admittance of a new state that is already a part and in which European laws are already in effect.
—He alludes to the foundational concepts of the Union—liberty, democracy, equality and the rule of law—to prove that it wouldn’t make any sense to deny the right of self-determination in accord with these same principles, and that doing so would be a ‘democractic regression’.
—He remarks upon the fact that the European Union is defined constitutionally not just as a union of states but also as a union of citizens, and affirms that stripping Catalans and Scots of their European citizenship would go against constructive legal rulings of the European Court of Justice.
42% No to 39 Y u 19 in the SoS poll.
http://archive.today/dLBrn
Astroturfers out in force in the comments of the SoS story – the ‘No’ revival is right around the corner, apparently.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/referendum-race-on-knife-edge-as-no-support-slides-1-3382125
One interesting snippet is that 15% of the sample was English, yet only 10% or slightly less of the population is English. This suggests they may have overweighted a segment which is disposed to vote No by two to one.
SoS poll now available and brilliant news. Scotland on brink of independence, says the headline. Wonder if the closing gap between yes and no might be an added kick to some organisations and businesses to quit CBI.
Great work BfS. Keep up the pressure please.
There’s an article on SoS by an ICM big cheese, admitting that they don’t know what’s going on, or if they’re doing it right or not…
http://www.scotsman.com/news/martin-boon-a-pollster-entering-uncharted-waters-1-3382088
Andrew Morton said “…Scots born respondents are 42% to 40% in favour of independence.”
Which means it’s people not born in Scotland who are tilting the balance to No. Understandable, but more of these people need to be persuaded.
Minty,
If they don’t know…
It could be that the majority of the undecided are leaning Yes but they have been discounted on the top figure. We will have to see the date tables and questions asked and Scottish Skiers thoughts on the poll data.
Other good articles/comments along the lines of:
1) Scotland’s Future vs Introducing Devo Nano (for Shetland).
2) ‘Something for Nothing’ (big YES lift on that one alone, cheers Madame Lamont).
3) The picture article of all the other big companies, supporting YES on their vehicles, advertising etc (Lucozade, Virgin, The RB-YES).
4) Maybe an additional link to the ‘Off-topic’ ongoing discussions?
I reckon anything from the stupid category esp. Michael Kelly ought to be included as it ironically reflects a lot of stupidity which will vote No.
In his Scotsman article Martin Boon of ICM says “…one of the two largest groups who currently “don’t know” are 2011 SNP voters.” This suggests people who voted SNP in 2011 because they had provided competent government but who are not SNP or indy supporters. But surely to have voted SNP suggests these people at least thought more powers would be a good idea. So their choice now is indy or nothing. Not a difficult choice I would have thought, though to further complicate matters, some of these people might be non-Scotland born. In which case, according to the poll, a smaller percentage would opt for Yes than No. Nail-biting times ahead.
Taranaich, for me…
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/
…that article is number 1, because it clearly shows the democratic deficit. For me, restoring our democracy is the most important reason for voting YES in September.
He’s a random selection. The first gives an expert opinion on the Nato question:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-keepers-of-the-gate/
The second is a reminder of the sort of underhand tactics we should all be aware of & learn to ignore:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-dirty-game/
And finally this is a light-hearted wee reminder that when unionists say it’ll all be just too hard… they’re talking pish:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-little-less-conversation/
Sorry if this has been posted…
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=692968370761651&set=a.489171851141305.108216.486344144757409&type=1&theater
Ref the Scotland on Sunday latest ICM poll it is now becoming abundantly clear that Better Together aka Project Fear’s negative campaigning has paid off big time – for the YES campaign.
I was speaking to an English born academic relative of mine the other day and he said that one of the main reasons he and his partner were both voting YES was because they were so disgusted at the sneering contempt towards the people of Scotland that comes from the Westminster parties with every one of their ludicrous attempts to induce fear of independence.
Their other main concern was about what might happen to Scotland’s institutions e.g. the Scottish NHS and University Education, if there was a NO vote. This was because they have seen at first hand the damage that is being done by Westminster to institutions such as these south of the border.
In my experience these responses to the Better Together campaign are fairly typical ones from people who are switching to vote YES.
Have a look at this reminder of what Gordon Brown is all about.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/answers-for-gordon/
Not to forget the ultra hilarious “Green Door”
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-smear-wars/
STUCK OOT like a sair thoomb 4 me 😀
This one
http://wingsoverscotland.com/joining-the-euro-for-idiots/
It helped put an end to a BT scare and continuous lies on the Euro in MSM .
And stopped me shouting at the telly so much.
The truth will set you free.
I think helping people understand how Scotland spends money is really important
in one of the articles
(£57 million per year), abolishing free university tuition (£220 million per year), and ending the imperfect but popular Council Tax freeze that has helped keep money in the pockets of the poorest in society (£70 million per year). Labour’s “nothing is off the table” task force will also consider ending free bus travel for all over-60s (£192 million per year), and free personal care for the elderly (£340 million per year).
But while Johann Lamont may have been wrong about the affordability of universal benefits today, next year, and even the year after (the policies above combined cost under 3% of the Scottish Government’s budget)
Couldn’t believe how little all these things actually cost in terms of overall budget and that really starts to put into perspective just how much we are paying to service debt
People really don’t understand the % involved – A pie chart breakdown of the budget spend would be great.
It also could overlay how much the loss of the Barnett formula is going to chunk out of our block grant (as soon as JL says “at this moment” we will not be changing the Barnett it means the minute a no vote is received we will be looking at this)
PS When we get independence I strongly believe all school children should have 3-4 hrs of teaching on understanding these things to ensure that our children will grow up keeping an eye on what our government is doing
I think Natalie McGarry communications with Rob Shorthouse and Billy McCauley are quite enlightening about the will to engage and discuss and leave quite a strong impression about who is to be trusted more.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/failure-to-engage/#more-49384
I think this secret paper is also very important.
It was in repository but the original link is broken.
http://ourscotland.hotblack.myfreeforum.org/archive/oil-back-in-the-news-again__o_t__t_4919.html
Sorry, i just linked that with the http bit in, pressed submit then realised, doh!
Just found your article on it.
http://www.wingsoverscotland.com/as-it-was-is-and-shall-be/
Also this one,
http://www.wingsoverscotland.com/a-tried-and-trusted-strategy/
and the full link to the parliament paper
http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=RP13-47
And the link to the youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX1hNW_bzAI
@caz-m says:
This is a list of CBI Scotland Members posted two years ago on NNS.
I’d imagine Millstream Associates may wish to reconsider their CBI membership:-
https://www.millstreamassociates.co.uk/CaseStudies/Scotland.aspx
Ditto: BiP Solutions:-
https://www.delta-esourcing.com/about/
Both organisations are businesses that look to be mainly servicing public sector requirements.
Hi Giys
two articles I use regularly with good results are Unleashing a firestorm and The Angels share.
Keep up the good work
wingsoverscotland.com/journey-to-the-yes-side/
A must read for my fellow devo maxers. This article made me realise that the only way to get close to my ideal constitutional arrangement is to vote yes. Dave McEwan Hills post in the comments section about Confederalism and the Nordic Union sealed the deal.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/no-place-like-home-rule/
So many to choose from but here’s my contribution
http://wingsoverscotland.com/on-our-own-two-feet/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-solidarity-narrative/
http://wingsoverscotland.com/quotes-of-the-year-2013-box-set/
@scaredy cat
LOL, I just spat my tea out when I saw the image at the bottom of this http://www.wingsoverscotland.com/the-solidarity-narrative/
Surely a wee pic of Danny Alexander or D Cameron would be a fitting replacement for Leonardo there. There are endless possibilities with that picture, lol!
http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-angels-share/
caz-m
Hope you dont mind – shared your CBI data on the TAMB.