Congratulations to Jim Murphy MP
On his imminent election as “leader” of the Scottish Labour “party”.
Because this, readers, is the opposition.
The above is an interview with Scottish Labour MSP Neil Findlay from today’s Good Morning Scotland. It’s eight minutes almost as uncomfortable to listen to as they must have been to be the subject of. Findlay squirms almost audibly throughout, admitting that as Scottish Labour “leader” he’d have no actual power over anyone and could do nothing in the party other than express an opinion like any other member.
Bizarrely, though, Findlay sticks doggedly to the line he used on Sunday that it’s “Scottish Labour policy” to oppose the renewal of Trident, based on an oddly vague claim of a resolution having been passed at conference at some unspecified point in the past. In an email reply to a reader at the weekend he said this:
“When the the Scottish Labour conference last debated the issue it took an anti nuclear stance. As conference makes policy and it has not changed since then – that is the official position.”
Yet the truth is that Scottish Labour HAS no “policy” on Trident, because defence is a reserved issue. The last Scottish Labour election manifesto made no reference to Trident – or defence in general – whatsoever. The word “defence” doesn’t appear anywhere in the document (except once, talking about exports).
The last UK Labour manifesto, meanwhile, unambiguously said that “we will maintain our independent nuclear deterrent”, and Labour (including almost all of the current leadership and front bench) also voted overwhelmingly in 2007 to “maintain the UK’s minimum strategic nuclear deterrent beyond the life of the existing system”.
Neil Findlay appears to have some wholly commendable personal instincts, but all the political skill and savvy of a copy of the Daily Record that’s been extravagantly urinated on by an incontinent horse. He was eviscerated by Gary Robertson on this morning’s airwaves, repeatedly refusing to confront the fact that by his own admission he’d be a “leader” with no power to lead anyone – an exasperated Robertson was at one point forced to ask “What’s the point of being leader, then?”
All Findlay could offer in response was an awkward laugh. We imagine Jim Murphy was doing much the same thing as he listened.
.
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
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GR: Neil Findlay joins us now, good morning to you.
NF: Good morning, Gary.
GR: Isn’t the truth if you did lead Labour and you opposed Trident, that the MoD just wouldn’t take any notice of you?
NF: Well, we’re allowed to have an opinion, Gary, and I think the Scottish Labour Party should be able to take those decisions, or make those views known, and –
GR: But that’s the point, they can’t take any decisions on this, can’t they?
NF: Well I would hope that we would be able to influence [the] Labour Party across the UK, and Scottish Labour Party policy is already opposed to nuclear weapons, it has been since the conference passed that position some time ago and –
GR: But Johann Lamont said that she was in favour, you’re saying that it’s policy, Johann Lamont said that she was in favour and we’ve got Jim Murphy saying that you can’t be unilateralists on this, so the policy seems somewhat muddled, doesn’t it?
NF: No, but this is a leadership election where people have different views and different opinions, I’m just putting forward my opinion and I’ve always been against nuclear weapons, I think at – particularly at a time when our public services are under such pressure, I don’t think that that’s the right way to spend very considerable amounts of public money.
GR: When there was a debate in Parliament a couple of months ago and the motion put forward by Keith Brown that the Parliament supports the speediest, safe withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Scotland, you voted against that.
NF: Yes, because it, it linked the eradication of nuclear weapons and it said that that could only be achieved by independence, it linked it to independence, that’s clearly not the case. Independence wouldn’t remove nuclear weapons from the UK.
GR: But if this is a point of principle, wouldn’t you vote yes to remove weapons in a vote in Parliament?
NF: But it linked it solely to independence and that clearly is not my position.
GR: You didn’t lodge any amendments to it, did you?
NF: No, because that was the proposition put before us that it could be, that it was linked to independence and I clearly have my position, I’ve always been against nuclear weapons. I’m a member of CND; that is my position.
GR: On the issue of, let’s say you are leader of Labour in Scotland, you would, under the rules, be the leader of the MPs who are in Scotland. If there’s a vote at Westminster, and Ed Miliband says he supports the renewal of Trident, you’re sitting in Edinburgh saying you’re against the renewal of Trident, how do those MPs vote?
NF: Well that would be up to those MPs, it’s up to them how they vote, but –
GR: But you’d be the leader of the party in Scotland, you would be the leader, the leader of those MPs?
NF: Well I would have my opinion, that’s exactly what I’m saying, Gary, I’m putting forward what MY position is, and what the position of the party as passed by our conference is, in Scotland, that’s Scottish Labour policy.
GR: But you’re saying, as the leader you would only have opinions, you wouldn’t be able to direct people?
NF: No, well, that is the case, because they are –
GR: What’s the point of being leader then?
NF: Well, Gary, I am in a leadership election contest, I’m putting forward MY position, I would hope to have influence over the rest of the UK Labour Party, and I’m sure my colleagues in Wales and in the regions of the UK have similar opinions to me. I think, actually, my opinion is mainstream Labour opinion.
GR: But it’s not Ed Miliband’s position is it? If Ed Miliband says no, then that’s the end of it.
NF: Well, that’s to be determined, because we have to put forward our position for the manifesto in 2016, and let’s just see what that says. There’s a strong body of opinion across the country amongst the general public that this is not how we should be spending public money at this time.
GR: Well, indeed, it’s Nicola Sturgeon’s position and she said in her address to the SNP conference at the weekend that she could potentially do a deal after the 2015 general election if there’s a hung parliament, with the Labour party, provided they change their stance on nuclear weapons. Can you find common ground with her on that?
NF: Listen, where I agree with Nicola I will say I agree with her, and I hope she will do the same with me. This is an area where we agree that, you know, Scotland would be a better place, and the UK would be a better place, and indeed, of course, the world would be a better place without nuclear weapons.
GR: Do you also find common ground with her on a call for an end to austerity?
NF: Well, I certainly think that we need to move to get rid of austerity as soon as possible but, eh, y’know Nicola’s rhetoric is often much more better than the reality of what she delivers on the ground.
GR: But she’s saying a deal with the Labour Party after 2015 if there’s a hung parliament, to involve the SNP in some kind of supply arrangement with a Labour government would mean no nuclear weapons and an end to austerity. Are those two areas that you can say yes to?
NF: Well, I want to see an end to austerity and I want to see an end to nuclear weapons but Nicola’s playing games in the run-up to the General Election and we know that’s what she’s at so, y’know, I’ve been campaigning every day for the election of a Labour government with a majority and winning those seats in Scotland as well.
“SNP BAD.”
GR: You talk about bringing the railways back into public ownership – Keith Brown, the Transport Minister, says that that’s not an option that the Scottish Parliament can deal with at this point. Why was there nothing in Labour’s submission to the Smith Commission about about devolving those powers?
NF: Well, I didn’t write Labour’s submission to the Smith Commission, but I’m putting forward my position in the leadership election, and I think it’s common sense that if – at the moment what we do is we take a big load of subsidy, and we hand it to the rail providers, and they then take a big load of that subsidy and hand it on to shareholders. I don’t think that is common sense, I think that’s crazy.
We should be running the railways in the interest of the public, like we’re doing with the East Coast main line and the profits going back in to the Exchequer, I think that’s a sensible way to run the railways.
GR: But you can’t do anything unless you’ve got the power to do it at Holyrood, so, should it be in your submission to the Smith Commission?
NF: Well, I think Keith Brown is being a bit disingenuous, he could have set up a not-for-profit organisation to run the railway franchise in Scotland and chose not to do that, and we could have done that. But I would argue that we should have powers over the railways and that we should be able to make that decision.
GR: So it’s a mistake by your party not to ask for that?
NF: No, Gary, I’m putting forward my position in this leadership election.
GR: But you could win this leadership election without the powers that you actually want because your party hasn’t suggested it to the Smith Commission.
NF: Well Gary, as I say, I’m putting forward my position, that’s what you do in a leadership election campaign, you have different positions, if we were all the same you could elect anybody.
GR: How much would it cost to carry through your suggestion?
NF: Well, that’s not been costed at the moment, Gary, and I think given what we know about the way in which the subsidy operates I think it would be very cost-effective.
GR: Have you costed taking back PFI contracts?
NF: If you look at what’s happening in the north-east of England, Gary, with PFI contracts, we’re actually seeing that some of the health authorities and other organisations who’ve been involved in PFI are taking them back in because they are cost-effective, so it would be on a case-by-case basis where some of them prove to be more cost-effective being taken back in-house. That again, I think that’s just common sense.
GR: But have you costed any of those measures?
NF: No, because it would be on a case-by-case basis.
GR: But the reality is you’ve come up with two policies here which you have no costings for at all – clearly if you are to spend money on bringing PFI contracts back into public ownership, to bringing the railways back into public ownership, that means money that has to go on that cannot be spent elsewhere.
NF: But that… much of this would be savings, Gary, because if it was more cost-effective to run the railways in the public interest then that’s a good deal, if it’s more cost-effective to bring PFI contract back in-house then that’s a good deal, it would actually cost less.
GR: So you would only bring the railways back into public ownership if you thought it was cost-effective, if it wasn’t cost-effective you’d say no?
NF: Look, if we follow the example of what’s happened in the East Coast main line, it would be cost-effective, it’s now generating profit for the Exchequer in a better way than it was under the private sector.
GR: Neil Findlay, Labour leadership candidate, thank you very much for joining us on the programme this morning.
.
*Thanks to alert readers Seamus and Fiona for transcribing this interview.
I was actually at the Holyrood debate in early September where the MSPs were debating what the Scottish Parliament’s position should be on the renewal of Trident. Obvs due to the electronic voting system in use I didn get to see who voted what, but Labour were definitely arguing the case against getting rid of it. They are lying. Again. Sigh.
“What’s the point of being leader, then?”
Or what’s the point in Labours Northern colonial outpost.
What’s the point of being leader? That question should be aske of Ed Miliband. He is the Labour leader and will continue to be so until his party dumps him in May.
If you’re going to be branch manager you have to carry out the orders from head office. Either accept the situation or resign.
Murphy will be appointed as London’s man to carry out their orders and bring Scotland into line with their right wing rhetoric.
He’s a only going through the motions, which explains his jolly chortle at what’s the point of a Labour in Scotland leader, with his totally uncosted policies etc. Could have a stab at costing at least one bleh but no, future First Minister Eggs Murphy is coming, be afraid Scotland:D
Whilst it would appear that G Robertson gave Findlay a hard time, the test will be when/if he adopts a similar stance with the other candidates. If he does, fair play, if he does not give them a hard time, then it will be clear that Robertson was tasked by the BBCScot Lab party imperial masters to give Findlay a hard time.
Clearly Neil Findlay is not genetically programmed to make political decisions.
but all the political skill and savvy of a copy of the Daily Record that’s been extravagantly urinated on by an incontinent horse.
You mean like the one that came out this morning?
Listening to nonsense like this from a leadership “hopeful”, I become increasingly annoyed when I think of the plethora of intelligent, talented politicians and activists we have in the independence movement who could wipe the floor with them and take Scotland forward to better governance.
Honestly, sometimes it is hard being Scots.
What’s the point of being leader?
Johan Lamont recently came to the same conclusion.
A Labour politician was given an unusually hard time by a BBC reporter this morning.
Why?
Cos he ain’t Jim Murphy!
Findlay implies that it’s all just a manifesto that presumably will make folk vote for him to be leader, but if his ideas have no teeth he might as well say that as leader I’d give you all a £10K pay rise and reduce the working week to one day. Fine aspirations but not much use if you can’t follow them through. Must be a Labour lie problem at the root of this one, say anything you want
That was painful. So he believes that control of railways should be devolved even though his party doesn’t and he believes in nuclear disarmament even though his party doesn’t, maybe he’s in the wrong party?
@ No, no, no…Yes, 2:08pm
Findlay wasn’t given a hard time – Gary Robertson didn’t laugh at his protestations, not even a chortle!
None of the three amigos in the supposed leadership competition will be given a hard time, but, it will be interesting to see if Jim Murphy is treated with the deference he thinks he deserves.
I agree with Neil’s views on a few things, but this whole episode has demonstrated without doubt that he would be completely powerless to mould Scottish Labour in his own image, his opinions would be no more influential than that of your average labour party member.
Very telling that despite unquestionable similarities in policy ambitions, he just couldn’t bring himself to support either Nicola Sturgeon on trident and austerity or indeed Keith Brown on the railways… When will they learn.
If only the BBC did interviews like this all the time things could be so different. Not surprising either that Daily Record is defending BBC impartiality.
Robertson will take a leaf out of the Jim White school of interviewing when it comes to his ‘interrogation’ of Murphy:
‘Why are you so good, Jim?’
A horse would never extravagantly urinate on a copy of the Daily Record – it would have to buy it first, and they are intelligent animals.
I just wish we had something a bit more substantial, a bit more meat ( vegetarians exempted irony face thingy ) as a target to get torn intae than this mince.
Barrels in a fish.
This is a sham election. Only purpose is to later claim it was a real election, whilst they’ll claim it was a “coronation” of the new SNP Leader. (I think they have already used this line.)
Not that Labour would ever do such a thing. Think Blair, Brown and the Granita deal.
I would recommend joining a political party ( I’ve joined the SNP ) in order to get an idea how policies are formed and adhered to.
In just six weeks it’s already clear to me that toeing the line is essential, but before that a line needs to be demarcated. It is extraordinary to hear the disparate views of those purporting to lead ” Scottish labour “, and clear that they have been too busy arseing about and taking us for granted to see how far behind the curve they are as us newly politicised Scots won’t buy the crap being spewed out.
What is the point of being “Leader” of the North British Branch of Kensington Labour?
15 minutes of infamy at best.
Not so. What do you think happens to all these unsold copies of newspapers. This is what happens to some of it.
http://www.shreddingforbedding.co.uk/products.html
I am looking for people to buy me drink on Saturday.
Ah have nae Scottish groats.
I wouldn’t say he was given a hard time there at all. When you ask someone a question and they answer with a lie then you stop right there until the truth comes forth.
The problem here is that the average Labour voter doesn’t listen to the news at all. I’m not even sure they understand how radio works.
It’s my opinion that we lost the referendum due to poor standards in education over decades. Scotland voted No and the rest of the world just shook their heads in disbelief.
Greannach:
What’s the point of being leader?
The point is to give the BBC someone to promote as Scottish Labour Leader to prove that there really is a Scottish Labour party.
Luigi says:
17 November, 2014 at 2:14 pm
What’s the point of being leader?
Johan Lamont recently came to the same conclusion.
Slow neurons.
Luigi says:
17 November, 2014 at 2:16 pm
A Labour politician was given an unusually hard time by a BBC reporter this morning.
Why?
Cos he ain’t Jim Murphy!
________________________
EXACTLY!
Every bit of this is staged.
Now watch for the next instalment of Skeletor when he will
appear to be put through the mill – with his ready made answers
to similar pre-arranged questioning.
All in the interests of “balance”, eh!
😉
What an amazing change in interview question standard when it is “not Jim Murphy”.
I only hope that people see through the attack on the candidates and realise that Labour in Scotland is powerless and that is evident from these questions and lack of answers.
However it will be….Hail Jim the Saviour.
I really don’t know why Mr Findlay couldn’t just tell the truth on this issue.Which is….Scottish Labour don’t have a policy on trident because it is a reserved matter and therefore business of the UK Labour Party.Some Labour MSPs support unilateral disarmament.Some don’t (Baillie,Marra etc).He said he takes a different view than the UK Labour policy and that he’ll try to persuade them to adopt unilateral disarmament,which is fair enough.But why the lie about it being Scottish Labour policy? Weak,weak,weak.Thank goodness we didn’t have anyone of his calibre standing for deputy leader of the SNP.
@think again
Daily Record is defending BBC impartiality.
Not very successffully as when I went to add my agreement to Alex’s stance on scotlandnow it was still 100% in his favour and not the DR one! 🙂
How much trust you can put in that site is highly questionable as I did their how Scottish are you quiz and scored 100%. I am English.
I guess there is some consistency in what the man stutters…
http://scraptrident.org/neil-findlay-msp-says-scrap-trident/
…I’m not being helpful, am I?
gillie @2:11pm
‘Findlay not Genetically programmed’
This is a very good point and when you think back to when Johann made that comment, we all thought she was barking mad. As Prof Curtice would say, “the truth is” that Lamont was ACTUALLY expressing the reality of the situation at that time, that Scottish Labour could not express their own views or have their own policies. The Devo nano joke was another perfect example.
Her frustration about the lack of action on the bedroom tax must have been torture for her personally. Her loyalty would not allow her to speak out, so she came up with this cryptic comment instead.
Who is Johan backing for the posts?
McTernan’s comments about Findlay also make it clear that London Labour will always retain control and supremacy. So, what is the real play here with Murphy being installed as the Branch manager?
he is saying i oppose the SNP et al (the yes alliance/social justice alliance), but i love their innovative policies and policy ideas.
but i can’t come out and say that, or i would have to campaign for the policies and policy ideas of the yes and/or social justice alliance, and my bosses wouldn’t allow it.
that the people are not to be trusted to make political decisions.
they try to stay in charge so that they make important decisions about our lives, and reject the idea we are in charge, not the SNP et al, the SNP et al serve the will of the scottish people, and when they stop they will also got rid of.
all activity should serve we the people, sigmund freud and carl jung did speak truth when they said, “all activity should lead to inactivity”.
we exchange ideas in the spirit of equality, action(s) speaking louder than words.
others want politics to serve them, instead of how it should be politics serving we the people, and our collective/personal joy felt by all of us as one, in bringing permanent (stable) social justice to scotland and r.uk.
Excruciating
Bugger (the Panda) says:
Slow neurons.
Aye, the red tories are certainly not the sharpest tools in the box.
Jim Murphy will have the exact same powers as Neil Findlay will have as leader of Scottish Labour and the exact same powers as Johann Lamont had when she was leader,
NONE!
They are all puppets.
I have emailed my local MP Douglas Alexander about this nuclear weapons issue and also about the Type 26 Frigate order.
Drop Wee Dougie an email.
mp@douglasalexander.org.uk
@Grizzle McPuss
Perfectly helpful. Just another demonstration of how to be a Labour politician you have to give up thinking for yourself and repeat the mantras of the current Party groupthink.
On the 6th August 2014, Neil Findlay voted *against* a motion in parliament calling for Trident not to be renewed.
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=9439&i=84855&c=1699853
Short memories, politicians.
O/T
a little itinery for our soon to be FM.
Nicola Sturgeon now needs to go through the process of becoming First Minister of the Scottish Government.
•On Tuesday, Alex Salmond is due to make a statement in parliament in the afternoon.
•On Wednesday, nominations for First Minister will take place at Holyrood.
Nicola Sturgeon is the only candidate for the job, although there has been speculation that Conservative Party may put forward a nomination.
There will then be a vote by all 129 MSPs on Wednesday afternoon and, following parliament’s approval, the presiding officer will make a recommendation to The Queen that Nicola Sturgeon is appointed.
•On Thursday, Nicola Sturgeon will be officially sworn in at the Court of Sessions in Edinburgh and then take part in First Minister’s Questions.
The next anti Trident event at Faslane is on Sunday 30th November 12:00 – 14:00. It can be another good brick in the wall of getting rid of WMD, and a little step towards independence, if it is strongly attended.
Please will all supporters of pro independence parties and the YES movement try to get as many people there to join us as possible. A big event will also help to turn the spotlight on the pathetic, ‘weasely’ position of last remnant, so called, leftists in SLAB like Neil Findlay.
NO TO TRIDENT – NO TO ITS REPLACEMENT – NO NUKES IN SCOTLAND !
Incredible. Devolution lesson Number one:
When you create, or end up with, a party of politicians of below average intelligence (i.e. thicker than the people they are actually supposed to represent), then you have a serious problem.
Scottish Labour. Tick tock……
It looks increasingly likely that Jim Murphy will be “The Controller” of the Scottish Labour Accounting Unit.
I think the job title attracted him.
@handclapping
If I were able to italicise, then you’d feel my sarcasm better.
On your point; what a pity Findlay et al don’t appreciate that one of the truest tests of integrity is its blunt refusal to be compromised.
Bet it won’t be Hayley Millar that interviews Murphy. She filleted him last time
Betty Boop: Gary Robertson didn’t laugh at his protestations, not even a chortle!
If only we had a prime time ‘attack’ show based on the day’s news where the interviewer is completely irreverent, well briefed on his subject matter, able to mock his subject’s contradictory reasons for seeking power, knowing his subject’s track-record, skilled at getting wry humour and polemic out of the occasion.
We need a cross between a rigorous, robust investigative journalist and a clever satirist, with a good line in witty invective, to make those interviews memorable.
(Not a stand-up comedian, the lazy television’s producer’s first choice. Stand up material is too often immature and peurile – nothing remembered once the comedian has left the stage.)
Politicians are attracted to these occasions in spite of the roasting because they are vain, assuming they have all the plausible answers and can give as good as they get.
The Scottish Political Holy Trinity:
Scottish Labour Party
The Daily Record
BBC Scotland
They have one thing in common. ALL of their head offices are in London.
The horsepiss soaked Daily Record imagery was a very potent metaphor for Scottish Labour-their output would be the piss wrung from it’s pages.
NewsFLASH : Labour candidate recently ‘allowed’ to have an opinion and maybe even go so far as to ‘make those views known’!
Findlay stated they are “opposed to nuclear weapons”, not that they are opposed to trident renewal. Labour has been anti nuclear on a multilateral only basis since a while I believe, keeping their justification for a ‘deterrent’ whilst other nuclear threats exist.
Nevertheless, the stated Scottish Labour position can be turned on Jim Murphy. Eg. “As you are a supporter of Trident are you going to overturn Scottish Labours policy as stated by Neil Findlay ?” just to see what he states.
Meanwhile Scottish Labour and ‘Branch office’ are becoming more and more synonymous. If you have an opinion but cannot implement policy, consider voting Scottish Labour they have opinions too, and get the same replies from London Labour as you do. In fact Scottish Labour is like a self help group for people with Dependent Personality Disorder
Having just finished listening to the clip, I am reminded of the late Eric Morecambe’s famous quip, This boy’s a fool!
I think the phrase for Neil that we’re looking for is “the lights are on, but there’s naebody in”…
Labour is the party of war, the party of trident. Scotch Labour and anything from it is a hoax.
Is there somewhere short of a plank, stunning, the bit I tolerated. This man wants to lead, what?
O/T
Nicola Sturgeon will be holding a meeting tonight in the Pearce Institute in Govan from 7pm.
Livestream are covering the event from 7pm,
http://tinyurl.com/mg97npk
The Pearce Institute is at Govan Cross, Glasgow, near the Subway.
Democracy Reborn I concur on that, I think my plank must be raised to naeboy in, or the lights are oot.
@ Jim Mitchell
All the right words ( I paraphrase ) but not in the right order?
I have lots of ideas and i make many decisions and then my wife ignores them…Can i be leader of the Labour Party
Too Much?
My dad who was a joiner always said you should never work with blunt tools as you are much more likely to get injured. If only he was around to see the SLAB selection of dull edged implements.
BTP did I see you say you’re in Freuchie this week?
@Craig P.
Thanks for the link. Neil Findlay states his position during the debate, which can be seen here:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=9439&i=84853&c=1699784#.VGoTQRZtWAE
It shows he was disingenuous on GMS, because he is only against if all the UK agree to fully abandon it and prefers to keep it in Scotland other than removing it South of the border.
I don’t care what the official party policy is–I’ve got my opinion and that’s all that counts. As leader I can influence everyone who has a different opinion to me.
NF: Hey Ed. How ’bout we scrap them nukes on the Clyde, big man?
ED: Are you feckin’ stupid?
NF: Aye, but Ed. Think of the money that’ll be saved. We could put the savings towards mitigating austerity. How ’bout it, big chap?
ED: Are you feckin’ stupid?
NF: But Ed. Be reasonable here. I’ve a leadership contest to win.
ED: You ARE feckin’ stupid, wee man!
Neil Findlay was apparently a bricky for ten years. A brick has a higher following on social media than Jim Murphy. Is there a theme developing here?
Wonder what Jackie Baillie thinks of Mr Findlay. Local talk is that she won’t stand for election in 2016 but leaving these shores.
the irony is that the trident system is leased. see here
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmdfence/986/986we13.htm
The only reason we are upgrading is that the US are switching to a newer system. Since we need US fire and control subsystems, the upgrade would have left the UK with missiles it couldn’t use. The only thing that is truly independent of the US are the subs and the personnel who crew them.
The US are increasingly wary of this arrangement – it really brings nothing in the way of deterrent – thinking we should invest money on repairing our conventional forces. Cameron, in an attempt to show the UK is still wearing the big by pants, blew an additional 3.5 billion on 589 tracked scout cars.
The hope is that the UK will be able to get these and the new trident subs by the time we manage to afford enough F35s to put on one of the new carriers.
This is the moment when you realise the UK isn’t so much a paper tiger, but a banana republic.
thought lamont was about as poor as it got, looks like neil (the sneer ) findlay has shown me i was wrong. that was utter pish. how the f*** can anyone give these people their vote?
Findlay is a brick short of a full load.
Neil Findlay sums up the Scottish branch to a tee, they have no say only what Westminster Labour tells them to say, we’ve been lied to for decades.
Neil Findlay’s wee laugh when asked whats the point of being leader then, is very telling indeed.
The Scottish Tory branch and Lib/Dem branch must be the same, no independent thought without asking headquarters first.
@ Bob Sinclair
Yep
probably hanging round my mates hotel, The Lomond Hills, with my mate Ronnie and John King will be there.
I am up for Nicola’s acclamation and the subsequent celebration in the YES Bar in Glasgow after.
But I will be in Freuchie on Friday (sometime) until I am dragged back to my daughter’s house.
I am there for the night only and will have to drive to Glasgow next day.
Ye bide in Frechie?
Just listened during tea break at work. Had to repeatedly stop until all the laughing had died down! This boy is funnier than Kevin Bridges. @Morag, Sheddingforbedding. Com. Brilliant!! 🙂 🙂
The policies I advocate are my own, my personal proposals considered very carefully, formulated in the taxi on the way to the studio.
They are my views as candidate for leadership of Labour Branch Office Southwest Scotland. That is to say, made up on the spur knowing I have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting elected against the wishes of Labour UK management.
On that basis they have no value other than to fill the time that it takes for this interview, after which they will be jettisoned for Labour Grand Central HQ’s policies that cannot be altered unless approved by Tony Blair in a midnight call to Miliband.
@Grizzle McPuss
Italics is easy You turn them on by the i tag shown above the comment box and turn them off with the same tag with a / before the i. The less than and greater than characters are Caps , and Caps . on my keyboard. 🙂
The b tag makes everything after go bold until you turn it off the same way by adding a / before the b. If you watch the preview box you can check if you’ve got it right. Good luck!
Not the brightest, but Robertson could have cut him slack if he had been so minded.
Interesting the support the YouGov data reveals Jim Murphy seems to have amongst those who regularly visit the City of Edinburgh Council’s website, whose occupations are also in government… suggests to me that he has a lot of support from the Edinburgh Labour Party, members and councillors. Well, I never really doubted they weren’t Blairite. But that would seem to confirm it.
Can we assume from this that Gary is getting behind Jim Murphy for leader.
O/T
Wait a minute, I thought our brothers and sisters south of the Border all loved us. It didn’t last long did it.
“English football hooligans are planning to travel to Glasgow for the friendly international against Scotland…”
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-30081378
Ah well, SNP membership pack arrived today – just to remind people going to the Hydro they don’t need it, as their tickets get them admission.
The Password is peculiarly appropriate as though it had been picked by hand for me. Very strange, perhaps it was!
OT what is the name of the Roman Legion which was lost in Northern Britain, you know, the one that ventured north of Hadrians wall.
Begining to think we have found parts of it in the northern branch of Red Tories
R-type Grunt says:
17 November, 2014 at 2:38 pm
“I wouldn’t say he was given a hard time there at all.”
Me neither.
Easy ride if ever there was one.
That interview was a true journalists dream come true.
All those golden opportunities completely wasted.
eg:
NF – “I didn’t write our Smith Commission submissions”
GR – (moved on to next point)
Now, i’m no journalist but that deflection statement by NF was just begging to be asked; “Well, who did then?”
I suppose that would have meant them going off script, eh!
Or was it a very deliberate attempt to let NF distance himself
from the disgraceful Labour contempt shown towards Scotland
via their Smith Commission submissions.
Who knows? Who cares? Filthy Red Tory ("Tractor" - Ed)s, one and all.
Destined to lick the boots of their London masters.
Subservient scum.
O/T Alex Salmond just tweeted that First Minister pension will be donated to charity – does anyone know what happens to Blair and Brown’s PM pensions.
slabs are trying to make scottish politics all about them, how scotland has let them down and claim that they are the change if they were/are the change we would not be here now demanding that change.
we are now getting that change in every way possible, we have ourselves found the solutions and politics that will bring this badly needed change, our march is towards very real social justice.
we are the change.
hell mend those who vote tactically against that change, we the majority of people now very vocally and collectively demand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC4pETi-3rs “winds of change.”
To borrow that old LibDem joke: If Moses had been a Labour MSP, he would’ve come down from Mount Sinai with The Ten Suggestions…
@Gouse Beater:
Interviewees got the interviewers they deserve. Jim Murphy seems particularly dull, and so the guy on the other side adapts to his tone.
Take someone as witty as Alex Salmond, oppose him a good interviewer and you’ll get something memorable. But both sides must be involved.
Free Scotland says:
17 November, 2014 at 3:31 pm
“Neil Findlay was apparently a bricky for ten years. A brick has a higher following on social media than Jim Murphy. Is there a theme developing here?”
Would that be the source of the logic for that Sun article “tae a brick?”
I don’t think I have ever left a message on wings before but listening to this has me truly flabbergasted.
This is the best that Labour have in a leadership contest?
They are in a worse state than I realised
Findlay’s other claim that he would take back PFI contracts for hospitals. Can anyone throw light on how he would do this? Surely the contracts would be very difficult to overturn and would inevitably cost any SG a lot of money to buy back. Where would this money come from?
O/T but the Daily Heil recently praised Murphy for promising to improve hospital food–an anti-SNP favourite attack by the DH. Presumably the DH will now praise Alex Neil for having already plans to improve by legal action NHS food– obviously this was planned well before Murphy thought he was on a winner.
I do not wish to seem uncharitable, but somebody in other Wings threads, who claimed to know Mr Findlay, referred to him being ‘as thick as a brick’. I think that does a disservice to the brick.
Are the majority of unions in Scotland really backing this man for leader of the Scottish Branch Office?.
God help those honest hard working Labour folk.
I hope they see the light soon.
Westminster and democracy in the UK is in meltdown. If we had an army or police force that could be trusted there would already be growing support for a coup.
I also seen that Findlay votes against Patrick Harvies amendenment during the trident debate which was nothing to do with independence directly:
“a constitutional ban on nuclear weapons in Scotland; confirms its commitment to working with nuclear and non-nuclear states to create the conditions for a world without nuclear weapons; supports a global ban on nuclear weapons, and considers that the removal of Trident from Scotland would strengthen the case against renewal of the UK Government’s nuclear arsenal.”
However the funniest intervention was from former leader Iain ‘Subway’ Gray. After a few MSPs declared they were a member of CND and that Trident is immoral. Grays contribution started with “I have never been a member of CND, but I campaigned against land mines”. What a guy!
“There will then be a vote by all 129 MSPs on Wednesday afternoon and, following parliament’s approval, the presiding officer will make a recommendation to The Queen that Nicola Sturgeon is appointed.”
I think these is a very grave constitutional mistake in the procedure. The queen is NOT sovereign in Scotland and this procedure gives her power which she does NOT possess. It is in direct contravention to the Declaration of Arbroath, which has never been repealed in any act of parliament.
That is besides the fact that the queen and those before her were never elected by a SINGLE SCOT — and the great many who do not want her has head of state are forced to know that not only can nothing be changed, but we will be forced to endure her son and then grandson as head of state (it is the exact same as Jim Murphy installed as head of state of Scotland and knowing that after him, his closest relative will take over!).
The potential SLAB leader I once feared the most was Malcolm Chisholm, but he would never get the job due to SLAB lemming syndrome. Perhaps in hindsight, he lacked the bottle anyway.
Murphy will kill Labour off in Scotland.
Training Day says:
17 November, 2014 at 2:29 pm
Robertson will take a leaf out of the Jim White school of interviewing when it comes to his ‘interrogation’ of Murphy:
‘Why are you so good, Jim?’
Jim was talking about Brian Laudrup as I recall and he was only speaking the truth. No one could honestly equate a Laudrup or Larsson in football, with a politician of such limited talents as Murphy.
Neil Findlay on the Andrew Marr show yesterday. Marr asked Findlay about Miliband’s unpopularity in Scotland.
“I saw Ed Miliband engaging with the public during the Referendum and the reaction was exceptionally good.”
It was just one lie after another, they all have no shame.
Full interview Starts 22.30mins in,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04sncx1/the-andrew-marr-show-16112014
For me one of the interesting things going on at the moment is the contrast between Labour and the SNP resignations and leaderships.
We have Alex Salmond, stepping down defeated in the referendum, but still well respected by politicos, almost idolised within the party and already his next move and what he will still bring to the table is being speculated on and debated widely.
Then we have Johanne Lamont, the Scottish branch leader of the party with most to gain by a NO vote, won the referendum, albeit with a fairly slim majority, should be riding the crest of the wave of triumph, but steps down and into the wilderness, not a peep.
In years to come will she emerge as a respected ‘elder stateswoman’ like McLeish, McConnel or Gray seem to have, or will she be ‘Wendy Alexander’d’ ?
Omg – everything that man said is nonsense.
Ok here’s how you answer if your a politician of a political party excluding snp.
Question 1. So do you want to get rid of trident?
Answer. I agree with whatever is going to make me popular.
Question 2. How will you generate funds for all these ideas you say your going to implement?
Answer. I agree with whatever is going to make me popular.
Question 3. Do you agree with UKIP on immigration?
Answer. I agree with whatever is going to make me popular.
Do yous get the jist? This is labour at its best – all talk and no action. These vile parasites must be ended asap.
“I believe in lots of good things, so vote for me and I won’t be allowed to do any of them.”
I can’t believe am about to say this but- labour are weak minded no hopers at least the Tories actually implement policies designed to mess up your life. Labour just does it accidentally.
Vote snp in 2015
Is it possible for Holyrood to debate Trident before the Red Tories vote to elect leader.
That would flush out Findlay and the Labour mob.
If they vote yes, then good on them, also makes it difficult for Murphy. If they vote to keep Trident, then hell mend them.
“Policy” and then “my opinion”
Poor Neil getting a wee bit mixed up here
Then are like sad kids who are forced to invent an imaginary friend.
There is no such thing as the Scottish Labour Party – it does not exist! It cannot think, it cannot have opinions, it cannot make decisions.
It is a magic illusion, a stage trick, to make gullible Scots vote for a London party with a London centric agenda.
seanair
yes, jim sillars, said bring ’em in to renegotiate, failing that taxation.
see youtube vid dr lucy reynolds health and social care act she explains who the culprits behind PFI are, labour and the tories.
seanair
yes, jim sillars, said bring ’em in to renegotiate, failing that taxation.
see youtube vid dr lucy reynolds health and social care act she explains who the culprits behind PFI are, labour and the tories.
Dearie me! We’ve just had an election for the new deputy SNP leader with 3 exceptional candidates to choose from – compare and contrast with the ‘short leet’ for the labour branch office gig!
The Jim Murphy Q and A session on Labour Hame was dreadful. If he cannot provide full answers to fellow Labourites, what chances does the wider electorate have?
Here is an link: https://archive.today/ptKmI
Are we sure it is not just his job to make sure Mr Murphy gets the job? Mr Findlay feeling the bbc heat when running against the establishment candidate.
What do you think? Seriously.
OK so Findlay’s not middle class, he’s not a lawyer, the guy’s an ordinary five-eight who hasn’t been afraid of hard work and would have been no stranger to back-ache & black fingernails. The BBC have obviously decided that Murphy is their candidate so the sleekit toerag Robertson gets carte-blanche to duff him up.
Lamont wisely steered clear of the Trident issue, her career came first and Findlay’s more open stance won’t endear him to Labour’s high-heid yins but where are his backers in the Holyrood bunker anent the Trident obscenity? keeping schtum in case Murphy scoops the pool.
What an embarrassing interview – If thats a candidate for Labour leadership it tells you all you need to know about how much respect Labour has for the Scottish Electorate.
What a change to hear a BBC interviewer put obvious questions to a Unionist party
Clearly if you want to bring the Post Office, the Railways or anything back into public ownership you dont vote for a Westminster Unionist party . . . ditto getting rid of Trident
I heard Neil Findlay talking at a indyref hustings at Blantyre Miners’ Welfare where he was up against Robin McAlpine. I am pretty positive that his position was that he was for getting rid of nuclear weapons as part of multi-lateral negotiations. He was definitely not for unilateral nuclear disarmament as I remember thinking that it was odd for him to be a member of CND whilst having that position. He seemed all over the place on the issue.
Lump a wood
@ BtP, 2:38pm
I am looking for people to buy me drink on Saturday.
Ah have nae Scottish groats.
Panda, I’ll buy you a drink on Saturday as long as you arrive as a Panda or at least wear your bow-tie :-). Not just your bow-tie, mind, because there will be a few ladies present and we don’t want PR getting too excited either.
@ Kenny, 4.18pm
(it is the exact same as Jim Murphy installed as head of state of Scotland and knowing that after him, his closest relative will take over!).
Now you are making me feel squeamish!
I take your point though about sovereignty.
@ Kevin Evans, 4:32pm
I can’t believe am about to say this but- labour are weak minded no hopers at least the Tories actually implement policies designed to mess up your life. Labour just does it accidentally.
Thanks Kevin, for making me laugh in the middle of this depressing midden that passes for Labour party politics in Scotland, the most depressing part being that folk will still vote for the cretins.
Seriously though, Mr Findlay is Labour’s idea of a practical joke right?
Right?
@heedtracker says:17 November, 2014 at 2:06 pm:
“He’s a only going through the motions …”
– And we all know that someone going through the motions means he is, “in the shit”.
I was hoping for Murphy at Labour Leader as he’s a short, mid and long term own goal. After listening to this I have changed my mind…..this guy is 3 own goals and 2 ordering offs by half time
Findlay is on the left of the Labour Party and is supported by the Unions. Murphy is firmly on the right and is supported by the British American Project who incidentally are firmly in control of the BBC in Scotland. Poor Findlay was hung out to dry at interview. Murphy will be given every assistance by the BBC and other media outlets in Scotland so that he is elected to the leadership of the Scottish branch of the Labour Party.
It will be interesting to sit back and watch the fall-out. Relationships, the party with a number of the Unions is just a wee bit precarious at this time.
Might be the SNP will benefit further should the trades Unions back their manifesto next My.
BtP I’m working in Glenrothes at the moment & staying in the Lomond Hills. I’ll be away Friday but hopefully see you Saturday.
@tombee says: 17 November, 2014 at 4:14 pm:
“I do not wish to seem uncharitable, but somebody in other Wings threads, who claimed to know Mr Findlay, referred to him being ‘as thick as a brick’. I think that does a disservice to the brick.”
It makes you wonder what Labour are about when they put up a right diddy like that as their leader when a few years age the threw out Dennis Canavan.
Well, Gary, if you listen to….. Yes, Gary, if you take into account….. No, Gary, there is convincing proof…..
Help, Gary, may I call you ‘Gary’?
Powerful stuff!
he sounds a bit better that the others, BUT he still talks absolute mince.
Thanks for the transcript (well, sort of). I can’t be arsed with audio/video (stops me multi-tasking on the PC)
An inability to think clearly is clearly no bar to high office in Labour’s Scottish Branch Office. Just look at the previous occupant.