The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Britain’s Got Cannon Fodder

Posted on July 19, 2013 by

We can’t say we were especially upset late last night when the Scottish Sun revealed that Susan Boyle is anti-independence. We doubt her views, or any celebrity’s, will dramatically shape the electorate’s opinions. All the same, the unseemly haste with which the No camp leapt on the news left an unpleasant taste in our mouths.

subo

And if you’ve ever read a tabloid newspaper or watched ITV News any time in the last four years or so, it shouldn’t be terribly hard to figure out why.

The singer’s Wikipedia entry has a few revealing passages.

“Boyle was the youngest of four brothers and five sisters. She was briefly deprived of oxygen during a difficult birth resulting in a learning disability. Boyle says she was bullied as a child, and was nicknamed ‘Susie Simple’ at school.”

“In August 2010, British tabloid, News of the World, reported that Boyle was experiencing financial woes as she was unable to access her fortune, which was being controlled by her management team – consisting of Andy Stephens, Ossie Killkenny and Boyle’s lawyer and niece, Kirsty Foy.

Boyle’s brother Gerry said that his sister was fearful of losing her contract and of returning to her previous financial situation and also that she has been unable to move into her £300,000 five-bedroom house in Blackburn because she does not have the cash to furnish it.

He said [Her] millions are ring-fenced but Susan has no concept of money’ and that she was ‘extremely distressed’ at having to live off £300 a week after being banned from withdrawing money from the bank or owning a credit card.”

The red-top press has also run numerous other stories about Boyle’s mental fragility, citing several separate alleged “breakdowns” spanning a number of years.

Now let’s be absolutely clear about this: we’re NOT saying “Susan Boyle’s opinion on Scottish independence is invalid because she’s mad or stupid”. Her stated reasons make no sense to us, but they’re no more illogical and irrational than anyone else’s.

What we’re saying is that she isn’t the sort of person who should find themselves being shoved into the frontline of an ugly political fight.

Because people aren’t very nice. For the avoidance of doubt, we absolutely condemn in advance any knuckle-draggers who might direct personal abuse at Boyle via social media or any other means as a result of the Sun’s revelations. If you read this site and you were thinking of doing so, even in the mildest terms, please, please don’t.

But we all know the sort of thing that happens online. Wherever someone sticks their head above a parapet on any subject, wherever there is weakness (be it perceived or real) or suffering, somebody will be angry about it and/or making sick jokes about it. So the odds are that someone somewhere who also happens to support Scottish independence will say something unpleasant about Susan Boyle.

That won’t upset “Better Together”, of course. In fact, it’s exactly what they hope for, because first they’ll get to trumpet her support and then they’ll get to give outraged quotes to their tame friends in the Scottish and UK media for yet another “VILE ABUSE OF THE EVIL CYBERNATS” spread in every newspaper. It’s a double win.

(Of course, it doesn’t need to actually happen to be reported anyway.)

Susan Boyle has reportedly suffered several mental breakdowns solely from the pressure of people liking her. The thought of how she might react to being on the wrong end of some of the darker spirits of the internet makes us feel queasy. But if you’re in the official No campaign, even a vulnerable, emotionally-brittle woman with a learning disability is just another body to throw in front of the guns.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

162 to “Britain’s Got Cannon Fodder”

  1. Edward Barbour
    Ignored
    says:

    Totally agree Rev, When I read this story online, my first reaction was, to query who was briefing her to come out with the statements. All of what I’ve read, seems to mirror exactly what Better Together put out in their videos.

    I truly feel sorry for Susan Boyle to have been placed in this particular arena, for the reasons that you have outlined. I am annoyed and a bit angered not at her but those that are supposed to be looking after her welfare. Who agreed that she should be interviewed by the Sun? did they not think it through?

    I also agree it leaves a bitter taste in the  mouth, to hear the Better Together crowd waste no time in jumping on this, which, perhaps might be a clue at their possible involvement in getting the interview to happen in the first place

  2. Craig Munro
    Ignored
    says:

    Brave and correct analysis.

  3. NorthBrit
    Ignored
    says:

    Well the good news is that whatever happens Scotland will remain part of Britain.
     
    The bad news is that according to the Oxford English Dictionary, nationalist includes “a person with strong patriotic feelings”.
    http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/nationalism

  4. Dick Winchester
    Ignored
    says:

    Your comments are spot on.  As I tweeted … ” I didn’t realise Susan Boyle was an economist”
     

  5. Desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Susan Boyle, famous for singing “i dreamed a dream”.
    Cue Alanis Morrisette!

  6. BlueTiles
    Ignored
    says:

    After seeing Susan Boyle kicking about Edinburgh just the other day, this news makes me quite sad. 
    This shows such a glaring lack of compassion from the No side.
    For all our political differences you’d think they’d still be a little bit more sensitive than this.

  7. panda paws
    Ignored
    says:

    I second the Rev’s analysis and warn pro-indy folk to be VERY careful about their choice of words in commenting on the issue, here and elsewhere less they be twisted.
    But on the wider issue, I don’t give a tinker’s cuss how celebrities plan to vote in the referendum and I really wish, unless they are ACTIVE members/volunteers for either campaign, they keep their thoughts to themselves.

  8. Chalks
    Ignored
    says:

    She might be mentally unstable, but perhaps someone should point out that an independent Scotland will remain a part of Britain.

  9. Jiggsbro
    Ignored
    says:

    I second the Rev’s analysis and warn pro-indy folk to be VERY careful about their choice of words in commenting on the issue
     
    If there are no negative comments from pro-indy folk then the MSM will invent some. I heard* there were death threats.
     
    * I said it to myself just now, so I know it’s true.

  10. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “perhaps someone should point out that an independent Scotland will remain a part of Britain.”

    Ray McRobbie’s piece, linked in the article, already does that. DOESN’T ANYONE CLICK blah blah blah.

  11. a supporter
    Ignored
    says:

    Slebs are irrelevant. In fact sometimes I’m against something just because a Sleb is for it. Yes, yes, I know it’s irrational but everyone is allowed his little bit of irrationality now and then.

  12. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    You despair of them sometimes. Wonder who thought this was a great idea?
     
    You realise of course they are going to punt any demi celeb they can into the firing line in order to provoke a reaction? The big name types in the public eye of either side can handle themselves. Some have even made the clear choice to become active in the campaign (a la Brian Cox), but getting the lesser known celebs to jump into the political ring with a throwaway quote of support and leave them there as click bait? That’s cold.
     
    Hope no one is idiotic enough to fall for this nonsense.

  13. NorthBrit
    Ignored
    says:

    @RevStu
    Speaking personally I don’t click on links headed “illogical and irrational” lest I find myself in Nico’s bar, chez Terry “Avanti poplo” Kelly or perish the thought, here:
    http://grahamskisreferendum.blogspot.co.uk/
     
    Maybe you could consider giving Ray McRobbie’s piece due prominence with some subtle editing?

  14. Gizzit
    Ignored
    says:

    It reflects badly on the Better Together campaign – unscrupulous, manipulative and ruthless

  15. Tony Little
    Ignored
    says:

    Well I for one will not even look for comments, never mind post any myself.  I am disappointed at her position, but she is as entitled to hold it as anyone else.  
    As for “celebs” influencing voters, is there ANY evidence for this?  If Sir Sean came out and said, “You know what, I have given this more thought and think that Scotland should remain under the protection of Westminster”, it would not change my vote one iota.

  16. KraftyKris
    Ignored
    says:

    I clicked three links and they were all articles written by yourself that I’d already read, I didn’t bother clicking anymore. It might be an idea only to link to articles written by others or have your wings links in a different colour or marked somehow?

  17. Tattie-boggle
    Ignored
    says:

    panda paws
    It wont matter if someone comments or not wait and see. As the rev has done a pre-emptive article you can bet your house there will be an evil cybernat separatist attacks susan boyle story 

  18. Tony Little
    Ignored
    says:

    @Jiggsbro
     
    Well if you’re hearing voices … but you do know what they say, “You are never alone with schizophrenia”

  19. seoc
    Ignored
    says:

    The ‘British Isles’ are fixed geographically and political views will not alter this position. The views of the people of these islands is constantly changing and long may this be so.
    It is when the inhabitants of a small section try to deny free choice to the remainder, push them into wars, dump WMD in their part of these islands then manipulate paying the cost, that folk say enough.
    You stay on your side enjoying whatever interests you have. Good Luck to you. Goodbye.

  20. Bill C
    Ignored
    says:

    As someone who taught young people with Additional Support Needs for 25 years, I congratulate you Rev on a very courageous, sensitive and honest piece.  Your last sentence “But if you’re in the official No campaign, even a vulnerable, emotionally-brittle woman with a learning disability is just another body to throw in front of the guns.” sums up the situation perfectly.  Quite frankly, I am disgusted that the NO Scotland campaign would stoop so low. It shows what we are up against.

  21. orkers
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve always looked on Subo as a poor soul taken advantage of.
    Using her in this fashion is beneath contempt.

  22. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Speaking personally I don’t click on links headed “illogical and irrational””

    I clicked three links and they were all articles written by yourself that I’d already read, I didn’t bother clicking anymore.”

    You guys know that you only have to hover over a link to see where it leads, right? (Mobile users are excused.)

     

  23. Jamie Arriere
    Ignored
    says:

    I thought the Scottish media had done a pretty good job so far in dealing with Susan Boyle, her fame & circumstances, and generally not tried to intrude too much on a woman with both fantastic opportunities and significant problems.
     
    It’s a shame Better Together couldn’t keep their clumsy paws off her. I’ve no desire to say any more.

  24. Ericmac
    Ignored
    says:

    Good article…  
    But  the warnings a waste of time..  
    1. Some idiot will be unable to resist
    2. There will be a False Flag, called Tavish McJock from Aberdeen, who will say something precisely for the intention you describe.  
     

  25. NorthBrit
    Ignored
    says:

    @RevStu
    But how do I know with that heading that Ray McRobbie isn’t Terry Kelly’s evil twin?
    However, fix my spelling and I promise to grovel appropriately for wasting your time.

  26. Linda's Back
    Ignored
    says:

    Hardly surprising that the 2400 millionaire bankers along with millionaire entertainers and millionaire sportsman including retired football managers back Westminster control but Westminster has no answers for ordinary citizens.
    The electoral system for the House of Commons is unrepresentative, the composition of the House of Lords is indefensible, the powers of the Crown are unaccountable and privileges are rife.

  27. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “fix my spelling”

    I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN.

  28. Juteman
    Ignored
    says:

    Sad.

  29. Vincent McDee
    Ignored
    says:

    Following the Rev clicking advise, the North Briton Person liespaper version of La Boyle interview, offer this enchanting option:
    Scottish Independence: The Essential Guide.  http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-the-essential-guide-1-2980422
     
    This is their opinion about what will happen to our British Passports:
    It is possible that a Yes vote in Scotland will be interpreted as an anti-English vote which will mean that options like keeping a British passport will be withdrawn from Scots.
    I’m obviously not really speechless, but I’m quite sure you’ll get my point.

  30. Vincent McDee
    Ignored
    says:

    Their “essential” answer to the question:
    Would higher education remain free?
    The SNP insists that it would continue to fund free tuition for Scottish students under independence, if the party remains in power. There is no guarantee that free tuition would remain in place if Labour was to take power at Holyrood under independence.
     
    At least they realy got it right about Scolabour.

  31. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    It is very sad to see vulnerable people exploited in this way.

  32. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    You’ve got to feel sorry for Susan Boyle. She has been manipulated and used as a cash-cow since the beginning days of her fame. Regarding the Union support, does she really – truly – hold those beliefs of those words that are attributed to her? Only she knows, of course. 
     
    Better Together see this collecting-of-celebrities-who-support-the-Union as some kind of vote-winner: ‘Look at (celebrity X) who is famous and rich! He/She is a Unionist! See how happy he/she is in the fantastic, wonderful Union! He/She says Scotland should vote ‘No’ – and he/she is Scottish, too!! So, if this famous and rich person is supporting Better Together, so should you, because we’re all the same – Yeah!
     
    It is a sad and predictable state of affairs.
     
    One has to hope that people who see/read this stuff from Better Together celebrities will realise that those celebrities are giving their support to the Union because that is where they made their fame and fortune and are not going to disown, what for them, is this reality. As they perceive it, it was the UK that helped to make them famous.
     
    Also, and importantly, where have most, if not all, of those Union-supporting Scottish celebrities lived since becoming famous? Scotland? No, mostly, therefore their views are taken as people who have a comfortable and well-off lifestyle lived outwith Scotland. Scotland is not seen as having or representing any importance to their lifestyle and, should they, for example, live in a nice part of England, that is where ‘home’ is. Why would they want to support Scottish independence which *they* perceive as being detrimental to their lives, misguided or not?
     
    Anyway, who cares which A to Z-list ‘celebrity’ says ‘No’. It’ll be the non-celebrities of Scotland who will be voting for independence; nurses, electricians, fishermen, bus-drivers, factory-workers and cleaners among many others. That’s why Scotland will say ‘Yes’.

  33. NorthBrit
    Ignored
    says:

    @RevStu
    Grovelling profusely

  34. Training Day
    Ignored
    says:

    Britain’s got talent may be wrenched off our TV screens if we vote Yes. Just remember that.

  35. Andy-B
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone is fair game for the BT camp, and remarks can be spun to make the Nats seem, evil and cruel, it is indeed the only reason they put Susan Boyles comment out their.
     
    Meanwhile Miss Boyle turned up at a Glasgow hairdressers today in Renfield Street, she, is also in the process of filming the film, A Christmas Candle.

  36. MajorBloodnok
    Ignored
    says:

    @Training Day
     
    Vote YES and never see Simon Cowal or Piers Morgan on TV again!
     
    Get’s my vote.

  37. Taranaich
    Ignored
    says:

    Susan Boyle is a dangerous choice to make, because it would be incredibly easy to twist any criticism of her conclusions to form a false campaign. Look what they did with the ither Susan, and that time there wasn’t even any actual evidence of abuse.
     
    I agree, Rev, that Ms Boyle is the last person who should be manipulated. At the risk of being patronising, celebrities are hit-and-miss when it comes to worthwhile and intelligent opinions, and I’d be leery of anyone who came to fame through Britain’s Got Talent, let alone SuBo. And I have to say, everything stated from her in the article reads like a prepared statement from BT, not her own words. All the same, the opinions are what matter, not the person, and SuBo’s arguments would be no less problematic coming from her as if they came from the mouth of the Brain of Britain.
     
    So frankly, it seems pointless to criticize SuBo for what she’s said, since she most likely didn’t “say” it at all: she just read it from a cue card. This part is particularly disgusting:
     
    Before finding fame and making millions of pounds from her music career, she relied on benefits as carer for mum Bridget. She added: “Welfare helps many of the most vulnerable in society. I don’t believe you should break what’s working.
     
     
    The current UK government is completely destroying the benefit system which SuBo relied on to care for her mother. This very government is “breaking what’s working.” This is what appals me the most: under the new benefits regime, what are the chances Mrs Boyle would get benefits at all? What are the chances SuBo would have the confidence and freedom to pursue her love of singing without the financial aid to care for her mother? Would she have gone on Britain’s Got Talent at all if she had to spend all her spare time and money on looking after her loved ones?
     
    In choosing Susan Boyle, BT have chosen a symbol of the sort of success story that the current government is actively attempting to kill through its despicable reforms… to represent their own cause. I cannot believe the sheer audacity of BT to recruit a representative of the very people the UK government is demonising as a “scrounger” or “cheat.”

  38. Peter
    Ignored
    says:

    Everybody who is a patriot is a nationalist. You can’t have one without the other. Basic fact of language.   
    And anybody who peddles lies deserves a kicking. Mentally handicapped or not. They have the right to equality in all things.

  39. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    I would hope nobody would have a go at Susan Boyle.  She’s entitled to her own views – but I do feel angry at the people who have cynically used her for their own ends, in the full knowledge of her vulnerability.  It’s a wee shame.
     
    On the other hand, I’ve less sympathy for the author of the piece.  He has an interesting picture on his twitter account – I wonder what it means?

  40. Training Day
    Ignored
    says:

    @Major

    At the very least we’ll be forced to pay a huge tartan tax to watch Britain’s got talent, and even then it’s likely to be spoiled by Alex Salmond photobombing Simon Cowell.

  41. Andy-B
    Ignored
    says:

    On a more positive note though O/T..sorry.
     
    Delottie Petroleum Services Group, has announced, North Sea oil remanis a strong and positive sector, According to managing director, Graham Sadler
     
    Research by the group, showed that 16 explorations and appraisal wells were drilling during the second quarter of this year, the figure is a rise of 78%, on the first 3 months of the year, when 9 wells were drilled.
     
    Mr sadler said, “Iexpect to see further positive figures in quarters 3 and 4”.
     
    Not bad for a country who’s oil resources are about to run out, according to the BT camp……oil for Scotland a severe holdback …..oil for the UK a welcome assest.

  42. Yesitis
    Ignored
    says:

    Proud, patriotic people don`t hand over their wages to their neighbours and wait to see what the pocket money will be for the week.
    Do they? Och.

  43. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    I only recently stopped working in the field of mental health.
    If anyone in my teams care, had the financial issues that Ssan Boyle clearly has, we would have initiated an ‘Adult protection order’ in which the police would help investigate if any financial manipulation or any attempt to abuse someone financialy as is clearly happening in this case.
    “Susan fears she will lose her contract”  ” She thinks she might go back to her previous financial circumstances” ‘She is unable to move into her own house because she is unable to access her own money for furniture’ ‘Her money is ring-fenced’
     
    People can indeed support someone with mental difficulties to manage their money, but they are not entitled to withhold money, or access to the persons money, that they need to buy essentials, such as furniture for their house.
     
    In my opinion, Susan Boyle is perhaps being financially abused by these people.

  44. Vincent McDee
    Ignored
    says:

    Aren’t we all lucky Rihanna and the Kardashians don’t even know what Scotland is.

  45. Murray McCallum
    Ignored
    says:

    There is not enough detail to judge whether SB is suffering financial abuse.
    If her funds are held in a discretionary trust fund where she is a named benficicary then that would be “ring fenced” but would also mean Susan had no automatic right to the capital and/or income in the fund.
    Regarding indepedence or not Susan is quite right to air her views regardless of their basis and/or background in fact.  Everyone has such a right.

  46. Al Ghaf
    Ignored
    says:

    They are prepared to conscript the 100 year dead into their cause, why not Susan Boyle?

  47. Shinty
    Ignored
    says:

    BT and their muppets are scraping the barrel with this one – tells me the silent polls are not in their favour.
    Think we should have a wee competition to see who can guess NoBT’s next celebrity they hang out to dry.

  48. raineach
    Ignored
    says:

    So she’s not with us. So what. Let’s stop talking about her health.

  49. Roddy Macdonald
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, I dare say CyberBrits are doing virtually the same as their real life counterparts heading to B&Q to buy Quisling Paint (10% off for BT Members at the weekend).

  50. magnus barelegs
    Ignored
    says:

    Seems to me like cynical exploitation of someone who has obvious difficulties. Just kinda shows you how far the bitter together mob are prepared to sink in order to try and save this broken beyond repair union. Shame on everyone of them.

  51. MajorBloodnok
    Ignored
    says:

    Magnus barelegs says: Seems to me like cynical exploitation of someone who has obvious difficulties. Just kinda shows you how far the bitter together mob are prepared to sink in order to try and save this broken beyond repair union.
     
     
    When I first saw the Rev’s article I assumed it was a picture of Johann Lamont rather than Susan Boyle; so it occured to me that your comment could be applicable to both.

  52. Cath
    Ignored
    says:

    I read the SuBo stuff this morning and it worried me. Reading this it worries me even more.
     
    Someone like her should not only not be thrust into a highly charged political situation, but should surely – if they have decent advisers – be actively warned away from it. Reading this article makes me think those controlling (and bullying) Boyle have their own reasons for pushing her forward into this. And that really, really stinks. Unless it was just an off-the-cuff remark and Better Together are using it, in which case the shame lies entirely with them.
     
    If celebrities want to come out for or against independence, and voice their reasons for it, great. All should be able to do that without fear or recriminations from either side, or recriminations from any government or establishment. But they should be doing it through their own choice, and with thought out reasons. Otherwise there’s no point to it at all.
     
    I don’t care whether Susan Boyle, Ally Bain or someone with the Twitter name “lokiscottishrapper” who I’ve never heard of, hence makes me feel like a high court judge, comes out in favour of Yes or No. I might well, however, be interested to read their reasons why.

  53. Braco
    Ignored
    says:

    Al Ghaf,
    you’re tapped right into that betterNO mindset right enough Al. Be very careful though, as you don’t want a monster like that escaped and wild, running around your mind unbidden!

    By the way I have been meaning to congratulate you on your avatar because, ‘let me tell you…when that rope pulls tight…..you can really feel the devil bight your ass!’ FACT.

  54. Taranaich
    Ignored
    says:

    She’s entitled to her own views – but I do feel angry at the people who have cynically used her for their own ends, in the full knowledge of her vulnerability.  It’s a wee shame.
     
    It’s more than a wee shame, it’s outright despicable. Nothing in that article sounds in any way consistent with her way of speaking, and just like what you see in every other BT press release. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if she was being abused financially by her supposed aides: how many stories are there about child stars having their money frittered away or withheld from their parents years after they attained adulthood?
     
    I’d be interested in seeing her speak of this in an interview, as opposed to simply “telling The Sun”: for all we know this was just an email from SuBo’s people attributed to her. Doesn’t SuBo hang out with Elaine C. Smith, after all? Wouldn’t you think Elaine would have something to say about all this?

  55. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    As an Englishman it really gets me that BT think you have to be a “nationalist” to support Scottish Independence.
     
    The people in Scotland are mongrels Angles, Picts, Britons, Scots, Vikings and more recently Irish, English, Poles, Italians, Asians et al almost ad infinitum. No racial purity then. One third of the British Isles for 5.25 million souls, no need for more lebensraum. Even in the arts there are more that dig hiphop than Scottish country dance. So where does the desire for “independence” come from as it is not nationalism?
     
    The answer is Westminster. The sheer incompetence of the 600 who cannot conceive of the need that, if you are going to meddle with people’s lives, you need to be right both about what the real problem is and that the answer is right and fair for every body. We have IDS banging on about how he believes he’s right and how his tinkering might acheive his intended result and with the Westminster system of the Divine Right of the government he gets to foist his experiment on us. Cromwell fought the Divine Right of Kings. We have the chance to opt out of the Divine Right of Westminster without fighting a Civil War.
     
    That’s why I’m an English supporter of Scottish Independence and will be voting Yes

  56. Yesitis
    Ignored
    says:

    OT
    A tweet from the BBC in Scotland`s Raymond Buchanan.
    Indy Ref voters to be categorised into 40 ‘tribes’?
     
    https://twitter.com/BBCRaymondB/status/358231284222402560

  57. Cath
    Ignored
    says:

    “As an Englishman it really gets me that BT think you have to be a “nationalist” to support Scottish Independence.”
     
    Well said handclapping.
     
    It bugs me when they call us all nationalists too, especially given that what comes from Better Together is far more nationalistic, emotive and nationality driven.
     
    I regard myself as Scottish, British and European. I love Britain – the people, the places, the variety, the humour, culture etc. After independence I’d still be Scottish, British and European.
     
    But I believe the country is the level at which countries should be run. Scotland is a country. We do not need a UK political union in which powers and sovereignty lie in London, and with an increasingly dysfunctional Westminster elite. I’d like to think, once we have a sovereign, independent Scottish government it will work well and co-operatively with the ones on other parts of the British Isles.

  58. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m not overly fond of the way the press and Westminster portray Scottish nationalism. They are so keen to have people link it to dictatorship, nazism, xenophobia and hatred. They are bound and determined make it a byword for the boogeyman. As yet they have provided zero evidence of any such within civic nationalism in Scotland and yet at every turn its practically used as a swerry wurd by the opposition.

  59. Richard Bruce
    Ignored
    says:

    I find this quite disturbing, she supposedly has a “Strong Belief”, that Scotland should remain…. This is like firing a starting pistol for some of the low life on the web and twitter. Look at what was said about Andy Murray. I sincerely hope they do not let her read the responses that will inevitably surface, making fun of her in all sorts of ghastly ways. To me she has always looked on the cusp of a paranoid episode and to manufacture another possible problem is simply beyond belief.

  60. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    Caveat: what I am about to say is not in any way directed at Susan Boyle herself. Any attempts to show rank stupidity, amateurness and/or ignorance is directed at Better Together.
     
    “I’m a proud, patriotic Scot, passionate about my heritage & my country. But I’m not a nationalist.”
     
    This from Wikipedia:
    “Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with his or her home country or nation. Nationalism should be distinguished from the related construct of patriotism, which is the extent to which an individual offers support for his or her home country or nation.”

    So, she (BT) offers support for her home country, Scotland, but doesn’t identify with her home country, Scotland. Hhmm.
    So, here she (BT) is saying, basically, ‘I support Scotland, but I’m not Scottish …even though I’m from Scotland’. Eh? Okay, riiight!
     
    Was ‘the message’ intended to say, ‘I’m not a nationalist’., or, ‘I’m not a Nationalist’. If it was intended to be the latter, to imply that she is not a *Scottish Nationalist* or supporter of, then the meaning of the message would have been, ‘I’m patriotic about Scotland, but I’m not a Scottish Nationalist’. ie not wishing for independence.
     
    However, because the script is all in capital letters, there is no distinction between small ‘n’ nationalist and capital ‘N’ Nationalist. Ergo, the message can be read, ‘I’m a Scottish patriot, but I’m not a nationalist, because I don’t identify my home country as being Scotland…even though I’m from Scotland’. Tsk! Tsk!
     
    So, well done there, Better Together – way to go! A wee tip for you though, if you’re going to do propaganda, at least make an attempt to put your scare/smear/lie in its proper context.

  61. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yesitis
    I’ve had occasion to use the Experian “system” and its GIGO as far as I’m concerned so if you add the general incompetence of BT to that its likely to be AGIAGO. Blue State should know about propagating errors in such a system and they dont have the footsoldiers to go out and get the correct answers.

  62. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    So it looks as if Project Fear have opened the crypt door already, with over a year still to go. Someone pass me a bucket please, this looks like its going to be one hell of a boaking session.

  63. Silver19
    Ignored
    says:

    @Cath Seems Aly Bain supports the Indy cause with some good points :-https://twitter.com/TradYES2014/status/358248453098319873/photo/1

  64. Bill C
    Ignored
    says:

    @Silver19 – I have met Aly and his sister and I worked with their brother Dougie in Castlemilk. Nicer folk you couldn’t meet.  Interesting that Aly a native born Shetlander supports independence. So much for Shetlanders wanting their own independence. 

  65. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    Another caveat: any following remarks underlining stupidity and lies is directed at Better Together and Better Together only.
     
    “I strongly believe Scotland should remain part of Britain”
     
    Just noticed that first ‘economical-with-the-truth’ first sentence.
     
     Um, unless the forces of nature are intending to cause a cataclysmic event where Scotland will be rent asunder from the rest of the island of Britain exactly across the border with England and left to float in the Atlantic, uncared for and unloved for ever more, or, perhaps to sink without trace like some latter-day Atlantis, then it is highly probable that Scotland will – no matter whether it is an independent country or not – “remain part of Britain” for quite some time into the foreseeable future. 
     
    So, well done AGAIN Better Together! You really are playing a blinder with this one!
     
    And another wee hint – if you’re going to be producing scare stories, at least make an attempt at reality, or people will start to think you’re just a bunch of lying-scum charlatans – and you wouldn’t want that, now, would you?!

  66. Shinty
    Ignored
    says:

    Dal Riata
    My thoughts exactly – remember the spoof Carlsberg advert, someone here will have a link I am sure.

  67. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    Personally I couldn’t care less what celebrities are reported to have said or think. However, what they do is a different matter. How is this Project Fear? A Scotsman who supports independence, but who is on hunger strike right now in support of the last remaining British detainee in Guantanamo (that we know of). And he’s not too tight either. Good for you Frankie.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2013/jul/19/frankie-boyle-joins-guantanamo-hunger-strike

  68. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Like others I am deeply uncomfortable with Susan being set in the line of fire like this. I’m happy for her to vote No if that is the way she feels but I do not think she is equipped to step into this bear pit … a bear pit every bit of the No side’s making as it is of the Yes side. I would be as equally uncomfortable with her putting her head above the parapet if she was a Yes voter too.
     
    This isn’t big and isn’t clever by those who are supposed to look out for her.

  69. James Westland
    Ignored
    says:

    Dal Riata mentioned an interesting point:
     
    “unless the forces of nature are intending to cause a cataclysmic event where Scotland will be rent asunder from the rest of the island of Britain”
     
    The opposite happened a very long time ago, geologically, when the Iapetus Ocean closed up,during the Caledonian Orogeny, creating what is known as the Iapetus Suture:
     
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapetus_Suture
     
    🙂
     

  70. Yesitis
    Ignored
    says:

    Handclapping
     
    More of Better Together targeting voter ‘Tribes’
    Sorry, it`s a BBC article.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23379615

  71. Geoff Huijer
    Ignored
    says:

    This article shows the kind of insight and compassion that
    keeps me coming here.
    It also shows that one does not need to manipulate people
    in the way the MSM does to keep a readership or labour a point
    (In this case BT have really plumbed the depths – and I mean
    no offence to Susan Boyle in saying that).
    Like others here it matters not to me what any ‘celebrity’
    says as usually they are only uninformed opinions made
    without having looked at the facts.

  72. Erchie
    Ignored
    says:

    STV News is reporting that Muhammad Sarwar (Father of Deputy Leader of the Labour Party’s Scottish jumble Sale committee Anas Sarwar) is so amazingly proud of his UK Citizenship
     

    That he’s giving it up to become Pakistani

    http://news.stv.tv/west-central/233484-former-mp-mohammad-sarwar-to-give-up-uk-nationality-for-pakistan-job/

  73. frankieboy
    Ignored
    says:

    I wonder how it came about that ‘nationalist’ became a dirty word? Only in UK could this happen.

  74. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    Voters will then be “linked” to activists of a similar age or with similar social media friends.
    This really makes me shudder and glad I’ve never taken on a supermarket loyalty card. I wonder which ‘tribes’ are for the gulag? I suppose we will all get our own ‘personal tutor’ first though, who will attempt to re-educate us in to believing there is a positive case for the Unicorn.
     

  75. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    @Erchie
    That he’s giving it up to become Pakistani
     
    Someone said over on Newsnet that it was Anas and my heart leapt at the thought of getting rid of that arsehole (no pun intended).  Now I find it’s only his old da that’s going.  How disappointing.

  76. bawheid bragg
    Ignored
    says:

    …And, over on the ‘Vote No’ page, they were frothing at the mouth the other day about using children in ‘Yes’ posters…

  77. David Hall
    Ignored
    says:

    A shameful blog. SNPEE foster celebs right left and centre. But when anyone else does it it’s despicable. And I have no doubt the false indignation at the prospect of the abuse she will get will be seen for what it is.

  78. Dramfineday
    Ignored
    says:

    Patrick Roden
    In my opinion, Susan Boyle is perhaps being financially abused by these people.
    Hi Patrick, I’m sure you well know this site but others may not:
    http://www.publicguardian-scotland.gov.uk/
    Very interestingly the opening para of the aims of the public guardian states:
    “The Office of the Public Guardian in Scotland has a general function to supervise those individuals who have been appointed to manage the financial or property affairs of adults who lack the capacity to do so for themselves.”
    Mmmm, now it doesn’t cover political exploitation but, if as stated, there are concerns regarding her financial or property state then there appears to be a case for the guardian to take a look, does there not? 
     

  79. Darren
    Ignored
    says:

    Susan Boyle? Really? She’s in no real fit state to comment about this.

  80. Robin Ross
    Ignored
    says:

    There is a deep irony in co-opting Ms Boyle’s belief for the NO cause. The YES campaign is constantly attacked for producing opinion and assertion – “Give us the facts,” demand BT.  Yet here, because a singer has an opinion, we are supposed to wither and crumble.

  81. Macca
    Ignored
    says:

    She lived of the state for years and years, and now she’s rich she thinks Scotland and the rest of the UK will take any notice of her?
    Wrong…..

  82. Caroline Corfield
    Ignored
    says:

    @James Westland  that very suture has part of Hadrian’s Wall built on it, at the roman fort of Housteads where the two plates met you can see the remanants of the upthrust core as a tall cliff. 

  83. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “A shameful blog. SNPEE foster celebs right left and centre. But when anyone else does it it’s despicable.”

    There’s nothing wrong with getting celebrity support if you think it matters. The issue here, of course, is specifically with Susan Boyle, and is that it’s pushing a vulnerable person into the frontline.

    But good work on “SNPEE”, whatever that’s meant to mean.

  84. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hall
     
    Read what people are saying not what you want them to be saying.
     
    No one is attacking Susan and there is no intention of attacking Susan. Is it wrong to be concerned for someone that is emotionally vulnerable or do the No camp  not care as long as they get their headline?

    PS SNPEE is in the same camp as Labour – a bit childish but if it wets your sponge fill your boots…as they say.

  85. starlaw
    Ignored
    says:

    wonder if this despicable interview was prompted by the Newsnight Scotland prog. who pointed out the lack of celebs. supporting the Better Together campaign . I also wonder if the interview was  ghost written BBC Scotland style . Susan Boyle should not have been approached on any subject other than her music

  86. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Good grief. I just noticed we’d got a chunk of traffic from some Susan Boyle fansite, so I popped over to see what they were saying. It was one of those twatpiles that won’t even let you look without registering, so I tried to register, got the security question “Where is Susan from?”, entered “Blackburn” and got told it was the wrong answer.

    (Awesome – I’m not being allowed into a dedicated Susan Boyle fansite because I know more about Susan Boyle than they do.)

    Next time it asked me for her cat’s name, which I can exclusively reveal definitely ISN’T “Fucknose”, and third time round it asked me the first question again, to which it turned out the answer they wanted was “Scotland”. Now it’s confirmed my email and I have to wait to be “approved”. (Which I strongly suspect I won’t be.)

    If I was trapped in a lift with Blair McDougall, Alistair Darling, and the owner of any of those forums so unbelievably possessed of utterly unwarranted self-importance that they make you jump through that many hoops just to be allowed to read whatever spectacularly inconsequential drivel they’re wittering on about, and I only had two bullets, I’d shoot the forum owner twice, AND smash their head in with the butt of the gun, until I was too exhausted to move.

    After all, as far as I can make out, Darling and McDougall are on our side.

  87. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    You can bet your life that Better Together and their ‘chums’ are hovering like vultures over a carcass waiting, just waiting, for those first comments on social media that criticise, or, indeed, make personal comments about, Susan Boyle regarding, ‘Susan Boyle – celebrity (Scottish!) – says ‘No’!’
     
    It’s absolutely guaranteed that any form of dissent, however mildly voiced, will be seized upon with relish by the BT vultures, whenceforth to be spread throughout the UK’s MSM and used as ‘evidence’ of the vileness, or whatever term they deem to be appropriate, of the cybernats and, in turn, of all the voices for Scottish independence. How very predictable.
     
    Oh, but Better Together wouldn’t go so far as to deliberately use Susan Boyle for exactly the reasons stated above, would they? …Would they? … Ultimately, only they will know.
     
    Just remember, this is the British Establishment at work here attempting to save *their* blessed Union. That means nothing is off the table – no dirty trick, no lie, no black ops, no ‘manipulating’ – nothing. All is fair in war, as some say. And make no mistake, this might not be a shooting-war, but for the Unionists the result of seeing their blessed Union ending next year in all but name, means doing anything, both above and below board, to preserve their existence. It won’t be pretty. Expect it to be dirty, very dirty indeed.

  88. Dcanmore
    Ignored
    says:

     
    O/T but important …
     
    The state-owned government body, Plasma Resources UK, which provides the NHS with vital blood and plasma products has been sold off to *Bain Capital, a US Private Equity firm, for £200m. Former Health Minister, Lord Owen, said: “It’s hard to conceive of a worse outcome for a sale of this particularly sensitive national health asset than a private equity company with none of the safeguards in terms of governance of a publicly quoted company and being answerable to shareholders.” (my emphasis).
     
    *one of Bain Capital’s founder members was venture capitalist and former presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
     
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d83ec55e-efc8-11e2-8229-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ZW5MQHbe

  89. Iain
    Ignored
    says:

    @Silver19
    ‘@Cath Seems Aly Bain supports the Indy cause with some good points’
     
    Nice one, a soaring response to the 84-year-old, flute-playing virgin they had on Newsnicht this week past.
    As has already been suggested I don’t think celebs will make or break the campaigns for Yes or No, but they’re great signifiers. More and more people in the public eye are going to be asked how they’ll vote, and I think we may get a few surprises in the next 14 months.

  90. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Dcanmore
     
    No doubt Johann, whenever the aliens return her will demand to know when we are selling off key elements of our NHS so we can be better together. 

  91. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Ally Bain is a fine fiddle player and a very sharp mind. In this bear pit it is the bear that would need to mind its itself, not Ally.

  92. Erchie
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s an unworthy thought, but think on poor Anas Sarwar, hisI auld father is now aforeigner, and we know how the Labour Party feel about people being in another country, like they died

  93. J C B
    Ignored
    says:

    Maybe Susan Should have a word with one of her her brothers, one of my best friends, worked beside him for 20 years; he has 2 law degrees, has been an SNP supporter for many years.

  94. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Dcanmore
    This will be the Mitt Romney, who’s unsuccessful campaign for the US Presidency, stood for rationing of Medicare and making recipients work for their food stamps?
    http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/13/news/economy/ryan-medicaid/?source=cnn_bin

  95. Sue
    Ignored
    says:

    Whatever you believe may have been the case in 2009, Susan Boyle is now definitely not anyone’s tool or dupe.  Oxygen deprivation may have left her emotions close to the surface, but they did not retard her brain. Anyone who has had any private conversation with her knows she is very intelligent, has a quick wit, and is very much her own person. Her reasons for being against independence in her statement reflect exactly where she comes from-Don’t let a fool bunch of men run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving. It is from all accounts the opinion many of the women in Scotland have, which is why opposition to partition is at 59%.  People need to get over the ridiculous tabloid idea of Susan Boyle as someone’s pawn because she is not very bright. The exact opposite is true. She is a determined advocate for what she feels is right for herself, and now she is also expressing her view on what is right for Scotland. Disagree with her all you like, but don’t underestimate her or pigeon-hole her as someone being used.

  96. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry, OT again. Here is an interesting article though, re. Bain Capital.
     
    Bain Capital Might Be Bad For America
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2013/05/14/bain-capital-might-be-bad-for-america/

  97. Apps
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell
     
    That Subo site you talk about, they are total nutters on there and know zero.

  98. AlexMcI
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Rev Stu, the cats called pebbles if I remember right.

  99. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “Whatever you believe may have been the case in 2009”

    The most recent press reports of breakdowns were in June 2012.

    “the ridiculous tabloid idea of Susan Boyle as someone’s pawn”

    I didn’t accuse her of being anyone’s pawn.

  100. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    How vulnerable is S Boyle? I know people who suffered the same experience when younger and are now Councillors, policeman, nurses and business owners.
    The biggest factor is the way she has been portrayed from the outset by the media. Thousands if not more people in the UK are no different but rather than having the good fortune that S Boyle has found, live on like the rest of us.
    The biggest manipulation of the common empathy that has been espoused by the media from the outset is based around her gumpiness – in comparison to the other contenders on these Saturday shite tv shows, rather like the portrayal of that large lass who could also sing well.
    Admittedly, my exposure to these programs has been limited to forced viewing at my Grans house – Dalgety Bay’s version of a good Guantanamo water boarding – however, I doubt very much that the very similar lady working in my local newsagents would get the Thrown_Together tinsel this poor dear is subjected to.
    In my opinion, this is nothing more than an attempt to reach the lost souls that switch on the box on Saturday night to watch that kind of horrifying bilge. The only sympathy I have for the lady is her choice in hairdresser – if she had a choice. The common sense that somehow even though she has achieved a relative greatness, she is still perceived as more vulnerable that those that can’t afford to keep a roof over their head is quite misplaced. In saying that, I can imagine Team Darling approaching her with the Britain brought you this fame guff. Sick.

  101. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    @Sue
     -Don’t let a fool bunch of men run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving. It is from all accounts the opinion many of the women in Scotland have, which is why opposition to partition is at 59%.
     
    Welcome Sue.  Haven’t seen you on Wings before.  Are you really saying that 59% of Scots oppose independence on the grounds that a bunch of men will run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving and that this is what many women think?  I’m honestly not sure what you mean but I’m always willing to listen.
     
    Re Subo, it is precisely her emotional vulnerability that some of us are concerned about, not her intellectual capacity.  I don’t know her personally so my concern is purely based on what I’ve read about her or seen on tv.  I’m not really worried about her political beliefs.  She’s perfectly entitled to them.

  102. Pedro
    Ignored
    says:

    I couldn’t care what SuBo does, thinks or says.
    And I don’t care much for her music either.
    Just saying, likes……….

  103. northbrit
    Ignored
    says:

    “Don’t let a fool bunch of men run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving.” 
    We’d really better let Nicola Sturgeon know that’s what she’s doing.
    I very much definitely suspect from the use of superlatives, ridiculous “logic” and sexist attitudes that Sue may be more accustomed to posting on the New Statesman.

  104. Loose,Moose
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m still stuck on the fence about all of this and the right way forward for Scotland and the rest of the UK.
     
    Regarding SuBo.
    She has the right to vote like all, but this could bite her on the arse and not recover. Once is fine, twice is borderline, 3 times disaster for her.
     
     

  105. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    @Sue
    “Her reasons for being against independence in her statement reflect exactly where she comes from – Don’t let a fool bunch of men run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving. It is from all accounts the opinion that many of the women in Scotland have, which is why opposition to partition is 59%.”
     
    Phew! Okay, let’s go with the hope that you’re not trolling. 
     
    You say, “…her statement reflect exactly where she comes from..”
    Do you know Susan Boyle personally? What does she say in her [sic] statement that reflects where she comes from? If you do not know Susan Boyle personally, how do you “where she comes from”?
     
    You say, “Don’t let a fool bunch of men run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving.”
    What are you implying with that sentence? What does that it mean? Could you clarify it for me, please? How, does that sentence have anything to do with Scottish independence?
     
    You say, “It is from all accounts the opinion that many women in Scotland have…”
    Do you mean that thing about “men running off beating their chests”? If so, how do you know? What “accounts” have you had? How many women is “many women”? Do you have evidence to back up your claim(s)?
     
    You say, “…which is why opposition to partition is 59%.”
    What is this “partition” that you talk of? Where did you get the “59%” figure you quote? Do you have evidence to back up your claim(s)?
     
    I look forward to your response and the answers you may give to my questions. Thank you.

  106. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @handclapping
     

    As an Englishman it really gets me that BT think you have to be a “nationalist” to support Scottish Independence.
     
    The people in Scotland are mongrels Angles, Picts, Britons, Scots, Vikings and more recently Irish, English, Poles, Italians, Asians et al almost ad infinitum. No racial purity then. One third of the British Isles for 5.25 million souls, no need for more lebensraum. Even in the arts there are more that dig hiphop than Scottish country dance. So where does the desire for “independence” come from as it is not nationalism?
     
    The answer is Westminster. The sheer incompetence of the 600 who cannot conceive of the need that, if you are going to meddle with people’s lives, you need to be right both about what the real problem is and that the answer is right and fair for every body. We have IDS banging on about how he believes he’s right and how his tinkering might acheive his intended result and with the Westminster system of the Divine Right of the government he gets to foist his experiment on us. Cromwell fought the Divine Right of Kings. We have the chance to opt out of the Divine Right of Westminster without fighting a Civil War.
     
    That’s why I’m an English supporter of Scottish Independence and will be voting Yes.
     
    Yes, it has become one of the hallmarks of the No campaign to equate supporters of independence as automatically being a ‘nationalist’ (presumably a Scottish one at that).  The fact that Alastair Darling and co are British Nationalists, who refer in negative terms to ‘foreigners,’ says it all.  Incidentially, why can they not admit they are British Nationalists?  I would have more respect for them if they admitted it.  I don’t think there is anything wrong in being a Scottish Nationalist either.  All it means is that you think Scotland should run its own affairs.  

  107. Shinty
    Ignored
    says:

    Dal Riata
    Carlsberg don’t do divine interventions – (from chicmac)
    http://s51.photobucket.com/user/chicmac/media/divineIntervention.jpg.html?sort=3&o=25
     

  108. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t let a fool bunch of men run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving
     
    Over here in Yes to Scotland, as opposed to the No to Scotland types, we are often taken to task for saying the gist of the anti-independence argument is that Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to be a real country.That anti-independence types never say stuff like that…they just say that the streets would be full of starving women and children…apparently.

  109. The Flamster
    Ignored
    says:

    I admire Susan Boyle – I groaned along with everyone else when she was on that stage until she started singing and I thought Wow well done Susan you’ve got balls! I bought her first CD not because I wanted to listen to it because I haven’t, but because she waited all her life for that moment.  Must be a Boyle thing well done to Frankie too – don’t think he is that funny but he’s got balls too lol 🙂

  110. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Sue
     
    It is from all accounts the opinion many of the women in Scotland have, which is why opposition to partition is at 59%.
     
    I do not understand your reference to Scottish independence as “partition”.  Could you explain that?  Why would Scotland regaining her independence be termed as “partition”?  I have never heard anybody talk about American, Indian, Egyptian, Kenyan et al independence in this way?  Of course partition has been a favoured tactic of the British state.  From your reference to partition I can only assume that you deny Scotland is a country or a nation in the first place.  You do realise that an independent Scotland woud still be part of the British Isles? 

  111. max
    Ignored
    says:

    Re: Susan Boyle and manipulation.  Presumably, because she believes it, Subo decided to release this written statement to the media.  Like any celeb who gets into politics, she probably knew she’d take her lumps from the opposition and has.  I wonder if her manager and very close friend, Andy Stephens, was in favor of her going public at this time.  Probably not.
    It is certainly true Susan Boyle is emotionally fragile, and she has had at least two short term breakdowns because of it.  There is nothing wrong with her mind, however, nor her determination to pursue whatever she thinks is best for herself and, in this case, her country.  BTW, for those worrying about her finances, it is not in trust. All the $18-25 million are in her name both in her corporations (of which she is the only stockholder) are in other investments in her name.  I think the articles quoted above from 2009, 2010 were solely from her brother Gerry, who appeared to have an interest in controlling her money himself.

  112. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    @shinty 
    Thanks for that. And thanks to chicmac, also. That’s funny! *That* is what you call a good crack – a long, deep and wide one, no less! (Not in a ‘Finbar Saunders and his Double Entendres’ sense, of  course! Fnarr! Fnarr!)

  113. Dave McEwan Hill
    Ignored
    says:

    mutley
     
    Exactly.
    Let’s stop people apologising for being nationalists.  I am a nationalist, have been a nationalist since I learned to think and it is the natural condition of any person who wants to see his nation run by its own people. 

  114. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ll just chip in and say not once in all my years of being something of a poll geek have I ever seen a celebrity endorsement have an impact on voting intention.

    I mean seriously? No, I mean for fuck’s sake seriously?

    Hey, a heard subo is no fur independence. That’s the union selt tae me then. An here wis me aw anti-Tory in a big way, ready tae vote fur a new, fairer Scotland an aw that. But subo, well, she helpt me see the light. Dave Cameron’s ma man noo!

    Land ae hope an Glory, mither o the free!….

    The BT flyer with Susan Boyle basically says to the electorate: ‘We think you are not very intelligent’. Either that, or those running Better Together are lacking grey matter. Which do you prefer?

  115. bawheid bragg
    Ignored
    says:

    I eagerly await the ‘Celebrity Scottish IndyRef’ Top Trumps cards in my Christmas Stocking…
     

  116. JLT
    Ignored
    says:

    This is just shocking and deplorable. My jaw hit the floor, when I first read the photographed statement.
    First , there is no way that Ms Boyle would ever say something like that. If you’ve heard her talk on the TV, you know, that she needs partial guidance just so she doesn’t become agitated.
    Secondly, I don’t believe for a second, that anyone in Scotland (both sides of the debate) believe that she has said that, and therefore, I would be stunned if someone came out and slated her.
    Thirdly, there will be many folk in the ‘No’ camp, who must be holding their breath on this one, knowing full well, that this could come back to bite… and bite severely. They’ll know that this is wrong on so many levels.
    As someone posted earlier, Elaine C Smith is very friendly and protective of Ms Boyle. I could see Elaine going off her rocker on this one!
    Seriously, is this the level that the ‘No’ camp have fallen too. I mean how ugly is this going to get? Even those folk running the ‘No’ camp have some serious explaining to do on this one. How can they honestly justify this? I think if they were asked, I think they would hang their heads in shame. So, if anyone gets the chance ….ask them!!!!
     

  117. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    I suppose somebody could just ask the journalist who wrote the article whether or not he interviewed her personally or whether he was just given the story?

  118. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Alex Salmond has already commented on cynical media treatment of Susan Boyle, and some of it applies to this latest development:
     
    “…Speaking on BBC Radio Five Live, Mr Salmond said: “I think her performance was a triumph.
    “I think the composure with which she delivered the song was fabulous and I think the gracious way she accepted defeat was also fabulous
    “So in my eyes, in Scotland’s eyes, she’s a winner. I suspect there’s a big career beckoning for Susan isn’t there?”
    Mr Salmond also commented on the negative headlines that appeared in tabloid newspapers in the run-up to the final.
    “We’ve got elements of a press who like nothing better than to build people up and then drag them down,” he said.
    “It’s pretty sad actually. It’s almost a psychosis. I would love Susan to win, to triumph over that sort of nastiness.”
     
    Source:
     
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8075756.stm

  119. JV
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m astonished at the number of people on this website who think that Susan Boyle who’s wealth is estimated at £22 million,is too stupid,vulnerable and fragile to have a valid opinion on Scottish independence.The hand wringing “she’s being exploited” idiots are a joke.You know nothing about her but you’re so “caring”.Pass the sick bucket.

  120. JLT
    Ignored
    says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:     
    mutley
     
    Exactly.
    Let’s stop people apologising for being nationalists.  I am a nationalist, have been a nationalist since I learned to think and it is the natural condition of any person who wants to see his nation run by its own people. 
    ———————
    Guys,
     
    I don’t hold back now. Whether it is at work, with my family, or my mates. As soon as someone say ‘No’, then I just go for their jugular, and hit them with questions such as
     
    1. If we are going to be so poor, then explain why there is at least £3 trillion of oil. Explain how a quarter of tax raised on food and drink comes alone from whisky? Explain how a nation that has the largest amount of oil in Europe (excluding Russia), has a massive whisky industry, tourism, tartan industry, the 4th biggest financial sector in Europe, top rate education, a brilliant Green Energy sector, etc …and all this with a nation of 5 million. Point out another nation who compares to Scotland, and then explain again to me, why we are …what is it …too poor, too wee, too stupid…..
     
    2. Explain why if the British Army is so great and Scotland would suffer, that at present. mass redundancies are happening within the Scottish divisions? Explain why there will be a bigger army in Scotland post-indy, compared to being in the union?
     
    3. Explain how we will lose shipbuilding contracts when we will need an Atlantic Fleet, A Northern fleet and a North Sea Fleet?
     
    4. Explain why English universities are in such a mess, while Scottish ones are doing exceptionally well?
     
    5. Explain why we are being continually ripped off by the Barnett Formula, and yet, you consider this to be good and fair?
     
    6. Explain how being outside the EU will be beneficial to Scotland?
     
    7. Explain why you think a Tory-UKIP coalition in 2015 will be good for Scotland?
     
    8. Explain why you think a Labour victory in 2015 will be good for Scotland?
     
    9. Explain why you think We CAN’T go it alone, when 200 odd nations have.
     
    10. Explain the benefits of the Union to me? I really want to hear them!
     
    11. Explain why you think a future war with Syria will be beneficial to the UK?
     
    12. Explain why you think a future war with Iran will be beneficial to the UK?
     
    I could go on. As I say, I don’t hold back now. This is the only way now to get the ‘Don’t knowers’ talking. If they see others standing up and saying ‘that this Union is all wrong and very unjust’, and let them see how the ‘No’ folk try and answer the above questions, then I think it will go along way to even answering the questions for themselves. If more of us speak out now, then I think the ‘Don’t knowers’ will begin to realise that there are many more folk out there who will say ‘Yes’ than they first realised.
    If we allow the ‘No’ers’ to say ‘Scotland cannae do it’, and we just skulk off quietly into a corner, then it will give the impression that we are in the wrong. Nope! I just go for them now. Hit the ‘No’ers’ with a few of the above, and watch them squirm, or I blow massive holes if they come out with the usual …too poor, too wee, too stupid…
     
    This is what we need to start doing. We are just over a year away from the referendum. It is time to start getting angry, and to start putting the boot in!

  121. Tris
    Ignored
    says:

    I wrote a piece on this too and i totally back what the Rev is saying.
     
    I doubt that these are Susan Boyle’s feelings at all. I doubt she said any of what is attributed to her.
     
    But Better Together may have used SuBo to see if they can tempt nasty cybernat bullies out of the woodwork, and may well be watching social media for some  hate tweets as we type and read.
     
    Let’s hope they find none, and another of their idiotic plans goes awry.
     
     I’ll add this  to my post too.

  122. fudgemeister
    Ignored
    says:

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell–I have been banned from SBFII. They are loonies over there. They are now here and KNOW you have applied there. I bet you are SpinglesMcBain, right? Believe me, they will not let you in now that they know.

  123. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Have just read the Douglas Walker piece in the Sun, as linked by Rev in first sentence  – astonishing stuff.
     
    Did he record the conversation with Susan Boyle?
     
    Did he back it up with shorthand notes?
     
    Did Susan express her view on the economy and the fate of the Scottish Regiments unbidden?
     
    (I don’t read the Sun and am unfamiliar with this Douglas Walker – who he? and what do be he up-to normalwise?)
     
    SuboGate‘ has a certain ring to it.
     
    If Mr Walker hasn’t been scrupulous in conducting the interview (and his editors equally vigilant in assessing the copy for approval) they may soon find their short-and-curlies in the grip of an ACME ‘ElaineCSmith’-model mangle.

  124. Clydebuilt
    Ignored
    says:

    Well I’m now considering my voting intentions. there’s an awful lot of famous people who are thinking that Scotland should stay in the Union. Su Bo’s declaration for the status quo is an impressive coup for the Better Together camp.
    The wife thinks I’ve been out in the sun for too long. I’m not sure,  I’m thinking if only the Bay City Rollers added their names to the long list headed up by Subo’s then I know for sure,   I’d definately be for a No.
     

  125. MajorBloodnok
    Ignored
    says:

    Sue said – Don’t let a fool bunch of men run off beating their chests and leave the women and children starving.
     
    Yes, that’s exactly what the independence debate is all about – forget the issues of social justice, equity, self respect, empowerment and democracy.  No it’s actually all just about male ego and mine’s bigger than your’s posturing by these frightfully primitive porridge-ridden Scotsmen.  Not like the civilising UK at all, definately not teetering on the brink of a cesspool of neo-liberal barbarism, oh no; although this is the very state that is willing to see people starve so that they can prioritise £100bn for nuclear weapons to enable ‘Britain’ to ‘punch above its weight’.  What is it with this BritNat obsession with punching?
     
    Well, you don’t know much about our shy retiring YES-voting Scotswomen do you?  If anything, the wife’s beating her chest and twating me over the head with a spurtle for having got the wrong vintage of balsamic vinegar for my son’s salade nicoise.  I’ll starve before he does.

  126. Manic Monday
    Ignored
    says:

    It is natural for millionaires to support the status quo so it is not that news worthy.
    What is exceptional is when a millionaire supports a radical movement that is prepared  to take on the full might of the British state.

  127. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    @Major Blooknok
    I’ll starve before he does
     
    Aye and don’t you forget it!

  128. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “I’m astonished at the number of people on this website who think that Susan Boyle who’s wealth is estimated at £22 million,is too stupid,vulnerable and fragile to have a valid opinion on Scottish independence.”

    1. Absolutely nobody said that.

    2. The above notwithstanding, being rich doesn’t necessarily mean you’re smart. Case in point: almost any Premiership footballer. Wealth is not directly transferable to expertise. All the money in the world doesn’t make Wayne Rooney an authority on the Higgs Boson.

  129. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @MajorBloodnok-
     
    During an interlude on our first night of ‘great passion’, she said ‘I’m so glad you don’t have a hairy chest.’
     
    I replied, ‘Likewise.’
     
    We have been together, for better or worse, ever since.
     
    Why can’t people just be happy with what they’ve got? 

  130. Training Day
    Ignored
    says:

    @Sue
    Lol.. ‘Partition’. Welcome back Fifi.

  131. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m astonished at the number of people on this website who think that Susan Boyle who’s wealth is estimated at £22 million,is too stupid,vulnerable and fragile to have a valid opinion on Scottish independence.The hand wringing “she’s being exploited” idiots are a joke.You know nothing about her but you’re so “caring”.Pass the sick bucket.
     
    JV
     
    Wealth may impress you, some people seem to use it as their only bench mark, but as others have pointed out it is frequently an indicator of little. Susan can sing beautifully and has been paid handsomely for that gift. That is all. 
     
    No one said she was too vulnerable to hold an opinion. They, and I, said that the independence debate is a bear pit and questioned whether it was wise that Susan step into that firing line. The kitchen was too hot for Susan Calman. Boyle is perfectly entitled to hold any opinion she wants. If you are saying that she is up for the debate then that is absolutely fine. Personally I am going to talk what you say with a pinch of salt and I am not going to get involved in any blood and guts arguments over what she has apparently voiced. There are plenty of others far more deserving of my ire. 

  132. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    @JV
    The hand wringing “she’s being exploited” idiots are a joke.You know nothing about her but you’re so “caring”.Pass the sick bucket.
     
    Grouchy or what…..? tsk tsk!
     
     
     

  133. Celyn
    Ignored
    says:

    It strikes me as really quite callous and cynical of the “no” campaign to use Susan Boyle in this way.  
     
    On another note, I’m horrified to hear that Mohammad Sarwar will become “a foreigner”.   Do you suppose there’s any chance that someone might invent ways for him to keep in touch with his family?   Like ‘phones, or aeroplanes or things like that? Even that internet thingwie we hear so much about? I do hope so.

  134. Taranaich
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m astonished at the number of people on this website who think that Susan Boyle who’s wealth is estimated at £22 million,is too stupid,vulnerable and fragile to have a valid opinion on Scottish independence.The hand wringing “she’s being exploited” idiots are a joke.You know nothing about her but you’re so “caring”.Pass the sick bucket.
     
    We know that her mental health issues are well-documented, we know that her family are involved in her management, we know that she has experienced issues getting access to her own money. So we do actually know a wee bit more than nothing about her. And, as stated elsewhere, since when was wealth the exclusive domain of the intelligent, strong and resilient?

  135. max
    Ignored
    says:

    @Taranaich  Susan Boyle has never had trouble getting access to her own money.  That was a fantasy of her brother. Gerry’s, 4 years ago, for reasons of his own that I have speculated on.  The  Daily Mail  printed a story, based on Gerry’s screed, naming Susan’s accountant and were sued in court, lost, and paid substantial damages.  That  ended Gerry’s accusations.  So forget that.
    Secondly, although Susan loves her family and has been very generous to them, turning over her new house to a niece (while she continues to live in the ex-council house) and her new car to another, her mostly elderly  siblings are in no way involved in her management.  Her manager and “dearest friend” as she describes him, has been with her from the beginning and is not an employee of Syco or Simon Cowell.  Nor does her financial adviser have any connection to her family, none of whom have any experience with managing large sums of money or knowledge of the music industry.  Her sisters were school teachers.  her brothers, when employed, appear to have been salesmen, although it’s murky.  I do understand the eldest and most successful was a lawyer, but he is now in his late 70’s.

  136. Interested Party
    Ignored
    says:

    Thank you, Max.  
     
    The condescension toward Susan Boyle here is mind-blowing.  She just finished her first tour.  She’s performed on over 100 stages throughout the world, including in front of a staggering 400 million viewers on television – live – in China.  She just returned from Russia, where she performed for the first time.  She’s performed in Las Vegas, in Japan, all over.  And she’s about to have her first movie released – a movie in which her part was expanded and she was called “a one-take wonder” by the director.
     
    There is nothing kind or caring about this article.  How can suggesting a perfectly intelligent woman is “mentally unfit” be kind?  There has never been any suggestion that Boyle was intellectually challenged in any way.  Sheltered with some problems with social skills?  Yes.  Intelligence – no, never in question.
     
    This article puts her intelligence in question.  All because she disagrees; she dares to have an opinion.  Is her opinion so frightening that she must be made out to be an imbecile by this article.  That is truly cruel, and “The Reverend” should be ashamed for his lack of research and real knowledge.
     

  137. Interested Party
    Ignored
    says:

    Finally, Susan Boyle endured 40 years of the cruelest forms of bullying, including being hit, flung in mud and burned with cigarettes, repeatedly.  She survived because she has a core of steel.  There is no other way a human being survives what she did and continues fighting for her dream – as everyone tells her to give up.  A few people criticizing her will be nothing, no matter what the tabloids want others to believe.
     

  138. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    scrolled straight to the bottom without reading ANY  posts so apologies if this has been said before,
     but I was just so angry, that those revolting people should push that poor woman into the firing line with the clear expectation of an avalanche of (cybernat) abuse,
    to put someone as clearly vulnerable as her into the front line is totally disgusting, I sincerely hope the people responsable for this heinous attempt at attracting abuse on her are ashamed,but somehow I doubt it,
    she is, lets be clear just as entitled to her own opinions as anyone else, but her advisers would have been looking after HER interests if they had counselled her that she keep them to herself if for no other reason than loss of income from possible reaction from independence supporters.
    This is not good and shows a dark and disturbing side to their argument that they will use anything and anyone no matter what damage it causes to further their own empty self serving agenda
    they truly disgust me 

  139. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    major bloodknock, (phew) says
    Well, you don’t know much about our shy retiring YES-voting Scotswomen do you?  If anything, the wife’s beating her chest and twating me over the head with a spurtle for having got the wrong vintage of balsamic vinegar for my son’s salade nicoise.  I’ll starve before he does.

      
    And you don’t know your living until you’ve been twatted over the head by a spurtle brandished by a chest beating amazon who also holds a city and guilds in cordon blue cookery, I see you’ve met the wife then? 🙂
    ps might I suggest vintage black gold 100 year old balsamic  
    has the perfect balance between sweet and sour leaving the palate with a warm light spice lasting up to 10 or more minutes.
    this advert was brought to you……………………………………….

  140. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    jv says
    “I’m astonished at the number of people on this website who think that Susan Boyle who’s wealth is estimated at £22 million,is too stupid,vulnerable and fragile to have a valid opinion on Scottish independence.The hand wringing “she’s being exploited” idiots are a joke.You know nothing about her but you’re so “caring”.Pass the sick bucket.”
     
    Wind yer neck in jv,
    noone on here says she is not entitled to her opinion.
    but the statements attributed to her are to say the least questionable, if someone stuck a microphone in my face unexpectedly asking what I thought about the issue I would probably babble incoherently,
    but the statements she (apparently ) made have the hallmarks of a (poorly) prepared rason detre  which fit her circumstances like a clog in my view were created by a scriptwiter who knows the sum total of bugger all about her or Scotland

  141. Mrs. J
    Ignored
    says:

    @max 20 July 2013 2:17 am: As I understand it, Susan did at one time have a problem accessing her money, due solely to her ignorance of finances. When she began receiving royalties etc., she arranged for a relatively small weekly allowance to be deposited to her bank account for day-to-day expenses. When at one point she made some improvements to her home, she thought she could go to the bank and withdraw more of her assets to pay the decorators. However, the bulk of her money was/is invested elsewhere, and her bank of course had no access to it. (At that time, she still had no credit card.) She did eventually have money transferred to pay for the improvements, but the story became twisted into her money being withheld from her. Possibly (make that “probably”), her brother Gerry got an earful from Susan when she couldn’t get hold of the money.
     
    Also, she did have a family member who was of enormous help to her – a niece who was an entertainment lawyer in London, who therefore had both “experience with managing large sums of money” AND “knowledge of the music industry,” and who helped her negotiate the contract with Simon Cowell and get her finances in order. This niece is a daughter of Susan’s eldest brother, who as you say is also a lawyer (the only university graduate among Susan’s siblings). Btw, he is 67, not “in his late 70’s.”
     
    Susan is a rabid supporter of Celtic despite having no actual knowledge of football. I suspect that her understanding of the indy question is on par with her knowledge of finances and football.

  142. NorthBrit
    Ignored
    says:

    @Interested Party
    You’ve rumbled these evil cybernats.
    They’re quaking in their boots.
    All it will take is the intervention of the Krankies and it’s game over.

  143. Timo
    Ignored
    says:

    Susan’s just a puppet and we all know who pulls the strings there….this woman is a loose cannon and always will be.

  144. James Morton
    Ignored
    says:

    You can understand the concerns, but what I would say to susan and have said to others with these exact concerns is this: These are important questions, but you must also ask these of the parties that support Union. Look at what is happening right now. If you ask these questions of them and you are happy that everything you mentioned will be taken care of in the Union, then by all means vote no. But if like me you are deeply troubled about were this Union is heading and the damage it is doing to the services and institutions you cherish, then I hope like me, you will vote yes on the day.

    Any competent journalist could easily cross reference her concerns with what is happening in the UK right now and it would hard to make that work for Bettertogether.

  145. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Interested Party
     
    So which is it?
     
    Susan is more than capable of dealing with the rough and tumble of politics where we all happily call Osborne an imbecile or she requires your rather strident hissy fit and sick bucket to keep us in check? You could just as easily have said Susan is more than capable of handling a few brick bats and some negative vibes so give it your best shot evil cyber gnats, rather than the world’s saddest tune on the world’s smallest violin shite you just tried to palm off.
     
    While I have no intention of bad mouthing Boyle you can fuck right off.

  146. Dave McEwan Hill
    Ignored
    says:

    Calm down,guys.
    Apart directing more well deserved scorn towards the Scottish press this will have no effect – except as an own goal. Susan Boyle is perfectly entitled to hold any opinion she likes about anything but anybody who is strongly influenced in their decision making by the opinions of Susan Boyle is beyond sensible reason and I feel very sorry for Susan who is being used by the unscrupulous and deeply stupid people constructing the Better Together campaign.
    This little stunt has been disgusting and many people will feel this quite strongly 

  147. Stuart Black
    Ignored
    says:

    I finally followed the link. Douglas Walker wrote:
     
    “Her decision to back the Better Together campaign is a blow to First Minister Alex Salmond before next year’s referendum.”
     
    Really Douglas? Do you really believe that Salmond is losing a fucking nano-seconds sleep over this pish? Jeez, what has happened to journalism in this poor land?

  148. The Rough Bounds
    Ignored
    says:

    If the people of Scotland vote No jist because a wee fat Celtic fitba team supportin’ wummin frae Blackburn says so then they don’t deserve independence; they deserve to have their name wiped off the map and be called North Britons.
    And be known throughout the world as the folk who live at the top end of the island and who don’t have spines.
     
    They will most likely come to be known as ”The Filleted Ones”.

  149. Shinty
    Ignored
    says:

    Really Douglas? Do you really believe that Salmond is losing a fucking nano-seconds sleep over this pish? Jeez, what has happened to journalism in this poor land?

    Spot on Stuart Black.
    The fact they have even mentioned the FM in this article says it all really.

  150. Taranaich
    Ignored
    says:

    Susan Boyle has never had trouble getting access to her own money.
     
    Sure about that? In any case, there still remains the alleged mental health issues. You never can trust the tabloids, but at the same time I felt distinctly uncomfortable. And this is from someone who has spent all his adult life around people with various mental health issues, and has witnessed the tremendous stigmas still attached to the disabled.
     
    The condescension toward Susan Boyle here is mind-blowing. 
     
    Please don’t do this. Just don’t. It is not condescending to fear that someone with a history of mental health issues is being manipulated. What is condescending is belittling Ms Boyle’s achievement by alleging that a woman with a history of mental health issues, where there is clear and plentiful evidence of those difficulties, is actually “perfectly intelligent” enough to write the above piece straight from Better Together. As you yourself say, Ms Boyle has experienced hell growing up: why would you downplay just how hard that struggle was and continues to be?
     
    People with mental health issues deserve to be treated with understanding, respect, and for people not to look down on them. But they also deserve people to understand what they are and are not capable of. It isn’t condescending to provide ramps for wheelchairs, and it isn’t condescending to be concerned about the historically very problematic world of show business, and how it is NOT a good place for vulnerable people of any stripe. Look up Drew Barrymore’s childhood.
     
    She just finished her first tour.  She’s performed on over 100 stages throughout the world, including in front of a staggering 400 million viewers on television – live – in China.  She just returned from Russia, where she performed for the first time.  She’s performed in Las Vegas, in Japan, all over.  And she’s about to have her first movie released – a movie in which her part was expanded and she was called “a one-take wonder” by the director.

    None of which has anything to do with her intelligence, but her talent, which is of course considerable. And since when is being less intelligent a bad thing? Intelligence has no bearing on a person’s worth, or makes them a better person, nor does it make their opinion more or less informed. And that’s the problem.

    How can suggesting a perfectly intelligent woman is “mentally unfit” be kind? There has never been any suggestion that Boyle was intellectually challenged in any way.  Sheltered with some problems with social skills?  Yes.  Intelligence – no, never in question.

    Susan Boyle was deprived of oxygen during birth which resulted in brain damage and a learning disability, she left school with few qualifications, and her only employment prior to her singing career was as a trainee chef for 6 months.

    And speaking as someone who has suffered, and continues to suffer, mental health problems, I would appreciate it if you would stop this patronising white-knighting by claiming a woman with clear-cut mental health difficulties is actually “perfectly intelligent.” You wouldn’t call a person with severe arthritis “perfectly able to climb stairs,” so why would you call someone with – again – minor brain damage and diagnosed learning disabilities “perfectly intelligent”?
     
    This article puts her intelligence in question.  All because she disagrees; she dares to have an opinion.  Is her opinion so frightening that she must be made out to be an imbecile by this article.
     
    Harlan Ellison has a quote: “You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” This applies to Susan Boyle as much as it would apply to Stephen Hawking.

    In the end, though, this is all a moot point, since when it comes to Scottish Independence, I’m prone to question the intelligence of ANYONE who plans on voting no. To date, only a few have convinced me that their opinions are grounded and informed, compared to the literally *hundreds* whose opinions are based on misinformation or nonsense. (and that last paragraph was only a little facetious.)

  151. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Taranaich
     
    Yes, that is what I said…
     
    but you were more patient.

  152. Dal Riata
    Ignored
    says:

    @Interested Party
    iI looks like you have made it into the debate with guns already raised looking for a right good shoot-out. It also looks like you’ve come here without really reading the full text of the Rev’s article, or reading through the comments left BTL. It *definitely* looks like you’ve come here seeking out confrontation.
     
    You mention lots of condescension and examples of Ms. Boyle’s mentality being questioned and ridiculed. Can you give evidence of this? I, for one, did not see anybody being condescending or being discourteous to Susan Boyle either in the article itself or in the comments left BTL. Again, please give evidence to your claims. 
     
    Actually, I thing you came here expecting the article and its comments to be disparaging of,  and discourteous to, Ms. Boyle,  and on finding no such evidence left a rambling rant, in anger more at your own misconceptions rather than in any meaningful way applicable to the article.
     
    Really, it is best to prepare your argument beforehand rather than lose it and your credibility within moments of typing your opening sentences.

  153. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Aw, looks like the Susan Boyle fansite is definitely too chickenshit to let us join the debate.

  154. Interested Party
    Ignored
    says:

    Dal Riata asked:
    “Can you give evidence of this? I, for one, did not see anybody being condescending or being discourteous to Susan Boyle either in the article itself or in the comments left BTL. Again, please give evidence to your claims.”

     
    I will try to explain my thoughts.  I suggest that those who think they’re being “kind” are actually more often being condescending to someone they don’t know and don’t understand.
     
    From the article itself:
    “What we’re saying is that she isn’t the sort of person ****who should find themselves being shoved **** into the frontline of an ugly political fight.”
    This is condescending.  As if Susan Boyle cannot decide FOR HERSELF to join the discussion about something so important to her country.
    From the article itself:
    “Susan Boyle has reportedly suffered several mental breakdowns solely from the pressure of people liking her.”
    This is blatantly untrue – but since it was said as “reportedly” it is at least not actionable and he won’t have to pay like numerous news entities did.  The only “breakdown” Susan Boyle had was the day after BGT, when she stayed for a grand total of 4 days in the hospital and then went directly on tour – where she did 22 performances.  Not a huge “breakdown” I’d say.  (This is provable by her schedule and news articles.)  There have been no other “breakdowns”.
    From the article:
    “The thought of how she might react to being on the wrong end of some of the darker spirits of the internet makes us feel queasy. But if you’re in the official No campaign, even a vulnerable, emotionally-brittle woman with a learning disability is just another body to throw in front of the guns.”
     
    Again, Susan Boyle was brutally bullied for 40 years.  She continues to be bullied by people like Ricky Gervais, who refers to her as a “mong”, other comedians who imitate here mercilessly and others even on the street, including teens who search her out and video themselves taunting her.  Being criticized even brutally on the internet will be nothing new to Susan Boyle.
    And again, the idea that she is being THROWN anywhere suggests she is incapable of handling herself and making her own decisions.  That is the ultimate in cruelty and condescension.
    From Wings Over Scotland twitter:
    “What are the ethics of ***using someone like Susan Boyle for political ends****”
    I don’t even know what that means, but it certainly suggests Susan Boyle is too imbecilic to decide her own fate.
     
    From a comment:
    “I truly feel sorry for Susan Boyle to have been placed in this particular arena, for the reasons that you have outlined. I am annoyed and a bit angered not at her but those that are supposed to be looking after her welfare.”
     
    To feel sorry for someone is to pity them, to condescend.  Susan Boyle has never asked for anyone’s pity.  She went to the same schools as everyone else.  She got good grades, graduated on time, has certification in drama and performance.  She doesn’t need someone to tell her if she should express an opinion.
     
    Another comment:
    “It reflects badly on the Better Together campaign – unscrupulous, manipulative and ruthless”
     
    Why?  Because she can’t decide herself or take care of herself?  
    I could go on but I won’t.
     
    Regarding comments about the fansite – Susan Boyle has been brutally targeted, including through that fansite – by people looking to find information to go to her home, to send her odd things, etc.  What happened to walking a mile in a person’s shoes before condemning them?  
     
    Numerous members of that fansite have just returned from spending thousands of dollars in Scotland to go to Susan’s tour stops, sightsee, etc.  They have donated many more thousands to local charities promoted by Susan, following requests by her for support for these entities.  Many fans who attended these shows from all over (not just from fansites) were able to meet Susan, who is smart, funny and very, very capable.   
     

  155. Caroline Corfield
    Ignored
    says:

    It strikes me having read all this, that we are all sometimes the victim of believing what we read in the papers. Most people here will have picked up their information about Susan Boyle by osmosis from the tabloid press perhaps without realising it. I can’t imagine many who avidly follow her life through all the celeb magazines and the red tops. It is easy and forgivable then to see how misunderstandings about her mental state could have come about. Indeed, it is easy to see how misinformed about the true state of Scotland’s finances, Susan herself could be, because it is pretty obvious from her reported comments in the paper that she is in the same situation as many that activists come across while going door to door. Surely they have heard exactly these statements before?  I would imagine that after a good illuminating conversation those soft Nos may have agreed at least to seek out more information than the lies and spin from the mainstream media to help them decide in their country’s future. The only handicap that Susan Boyle has is that she is a celebrity, her opinion has been sought purely on that basis, and perhaps she is also unlikely to receive a door stepping activist with alternative information. I personally think this is the beginning of the ‘tribal’ strategy, Susan Boyle is being used, have no doubt about it, the mainstream media use everybody, otherwise Max Clifford would have never made any money.

  156. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “There have been no other “breakdowns””

    Are you a friend of hers?

  157. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    I can see I am going to have to clear out some of the humorous stuff I came up with in times when banter across the divide was on a much friendlier basis.  Basically, if I wouldn’t do it now, in the present and worsening, climate – it goes.

  158. Mrs. J
    Ignored
    says:

     
    @Interested Party said: “There have been no other “breakdowns””
    In fact there was a report of another hospitalization for a breakdown, last summer – which Susan seems to confirm in a Daily Mail interview published in November.
    I agree though that IQ-wise she is perfectly normal & doesn’t need carers protecting her from expressing her opinion. She may lose a bit in sales (as happened with her support of Celtic), but on balance, it’s an opportunity to keep her name out there. Free publicity, after all – shows she’s no dummy.
     

  159. Joe Middleton
    Ignored
    says:

    A lot of people seem to like to say ‘I’m not a nationalist’ without apparently knowing what the word means. If you support normal national powers for Scotland then you are a Scots ‘nationalist’ ie you support independence.
    Equally if you support the existing British state then you are also a nationalist, a British nationalist.
    Some British nationalists also claim to be patriotic Scots yet there is nothing particularly patriotic about wanting your country to continue to be outvoted in a foreign parliament by a factor of 10-1.
    The No campaign includes the Orange Lodge, EDL, BNP and UKIP as well as the Scottish puppet parties because all these organisations are against independence and are trying to campaign against it. All of them are British nationalists and all wave the Union Jack.
    Some of NO get very upset whenever they see a Saltire, like George Foulkes who complained when he heard Scotrail planned to put one on the Trains or the various unionists who seem to be happy to see Wimbledon covered in Union Jacks for a Scotsman’s victory but were disturbed when the First Minster unveiled a Saltire.
    Better Together are very far from being Scots patriots though I understand why they want to hide this fact as Scots identity is much stronger than the British one in Scotland and has been for years. That’s why the Union Jack is not the official logo of their campaign.
    I suspect this anti-Scots dimension will become clearer to Scots over the next year and a half as Better Together continue to attempt to scaremonger and undermine Scots self confidence.  
    By the way England already is a foreign country and Britain won’t still exist after independence. Britain comes from the ancient name of Britannia which can be defined as the part of thse isles which is specifically not Scotland. It’s a fake name for a fake state which was created in 1707 and which has always effectively operated as an enhanced England. The ‘British Isles’ label is an insult to Ireland just as the Union Jack represents a false claim to it and ignores the existence of Wales.  
    Boyle is of course entitled to have a view on independence but if anyone bases their view on the 2014 referendum based upon the endorsement of a celebrity then they haven’t thought about the question anywhere near enough.
    Apparently in ’79 celebrity status quo supporters appeared in newspapers on an almost daily basis warning against voting for devolution. Despite this we did vote in favour even though we were finagled out of it for 20 years.
    Celebrities are quite nice as indicating possible momentum for your cause and the numerous artists which are supporting Yes while No are struggling to pick up one is good for our side (artists tend to create Art which has an impact on the consciousness) but even if every current celeb all said they were voting NO I don’t think it would necessarily derail Yes Scotland. If you’re a multi-millionaire then you may well prefer the Status Quo and the fairly low tax regime (and offshore tax havens in Bahamas etc) which is the Tories’s preference.
    What Yes is offering is a chance to decide our own future on defence, benefits, human rights, foreign policy. It is ultimately flexible enough to include all views including those who don’t support certain aspects of the SNP’s proposed prospectus. That’s an attractive proposition. The Status Quo on the other hand is a Council of Despair and neither David Cameron or Ed Miliband have anything to offer Scots. We will never have a better opportunity than this to get a Yes vote and when the Yes campaign has put their message across on every doorstep face to face I have no doubt that vision of a better future and the enthusiasm with which our supporters put it across will win the day.    

  160. Interested Party
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev –
     
    No, I am not her friend.
     
    Mrs. J —
     
    Yes, you’re correct. Thanks.  I remember her saying that she had reached out for some help last summer.  You may be right that it was the result of a “breakdown,” but I got a different impression from her comments.  I thought that she came to understand she needed to get some “teaching and training” as she called it on life skills or dealing with emotions more successfully.  I agree with you that she had to deal with some issue, though.  
     
    Either way, the idea that she’s had a series of “breakdowns’ as suggested in the article is not based in any fact.  I myself think we should be supportive of people who understand they need support and reach out to get it of their own accord.  I suspect you’d agree.
     
    This is of course unrelated to her opinions on the independence issue.
     
    Thank you again. 🙂

  161. Mrs. J
    Ignored
    says:

    @Interested Party –
     
    The word last summer was that she had a breakdown in the street and was taken to St. John’s Hospital; in the DM interview she didn’t say or imply that she “reached out to get help of her own accord.” She said, “My personality changed and I was in a bad place but with the help of others I’m in a better place.”
     
    Further, she has been found lost & disoriented in & around Blackburn at least twice in the past half-year, in one case not recognizing acquaintances, who had to help her home; in the other case, a stranger in the next village found her in a similar state and had to phone for a cab for her.
     
    Sorry to veer off-topic, Rev.



Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




↑ Top