Breaking news broken
Posted on
February 23, 2016 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
File this one under “the wish is the father of the thought”:
We wonder which government?
It wasn’t the only moment of Daily Record-based fiscal-framework fun on social media today. Earlier this morning the paper’s editor Murray Foote became the latest in a long line of people to be fooled by the excellent spoof “Lord Darling” Twitter account:
The weird thing was, the comment Foote referred to as “baloney” was in substance actually identical to the Record’s editorial leader in today’s issue, namely that “The Vow” was not being upheld.
Of course, given that Foote claimed this month that most of the Record’s staff in fact supported independence, who knows who writes the leaders these days?
You’d think he’d at least give them the once-over, though.
Classic Homer – Doh !!!!
Journalism in Scotland.
Too poor and too stupid.
“….not completely signed off”?
Is that a euphemism for something or other?
Honestly, if the Daily Record suddenly spontaneously combusted, I don’t think I could be happier.
Maybe that Murray Foote twitter account is a spoof too. No one can be this thick in UKOK hackdom world?
Frankly.
this has cheered up my entire day 😀
(also a quick punt for the latest North British News AND CROUDFUNDER for those readers not alert enough to have seen it yet
https://northbritishnews.wordpress.com/2016/02/23/breaking-news-scotland-tells-brexit-campaigns-to-fk-off/)
“not completely signed off.” Does that mean the Scottish government hasn’t signed off?
Perhaps someone can give Murray a foot up the arse!
Either that Murray Foote is thick as crap, or he is so intellectually superior that he is f’cking with our minds and we don’t realise it.
I’m gonna plumb for the first option.
It looks like if there is to be a possible deal it will be with a ‘review’ after a few years.
If such a case, it will be almost impossible to change income tax rates until then – as any future shortfall will be blamed on that change rather than a flaw in the framework itself.
“Signed off” or “written off”?
A Vow, A Vow, my fiscal framework for a Vow.
On the subject of journalism, or perhaps that should be changed to ch urnalism heard this morning on the BBC some ahem Scottish person refer to a chasm as a chiasm and not a KASM
The standard has surely fallen if the only criteria is being a member of the Labour Party.
An outbreak of “Foote and mouth disease” there!
I was talking to a guy this morning who said another guy told him Nicola Sturgeon offered Osborne a square go
Dae ye think the Daily Record’ll print that
The guy said it was stick on true, nae swanking but
I see the STV are tweeting that there could be a deal made over the Scotland Bill soon. I am of a mind that we should tell the Tories to GTF over the Scotland Bill, because it is complete piss. Income tax on its own is simply not good enough, and it is a trap. I am hoping these MSM reports are false.
The Record is just falling apart.
It is just brilliant that they were tweeting this when they could just have watched the Scottish Parliament live to see Jon Swinney’s and Nicola’s statements to find out it was rubbish.
Just complete numpties.
p.s. Lord Darling is just great. Much better than the other one.
Mrs Darling – Maggie Vaughan (ex Daily Record no less!) seems to think it is Rev Stu that is behind the parody account?
How do you pronounce his name?
Is it Foot?
Footy?
Foota?
Footeye?
Maybe the “te” is pronounce “LL”……..yes, that must be it.
If a final deal is punted down the road for 5 years, that gives enough time to come to a better solution with a second indyref most likely in 2020 or 2021.
In the meantime, people get used to paying their personal taxes towards Scottish services. That seems like a big mental step towards full self government.
Oh Jeez.
Barney Bear moment. 😀
Thing is that it may very well be genuinely how the Record understands the situation. That doesn’t make it a valid understanding.
Just as there could be an deal soon. Doesn’t specify how soon and what probability there is of there being one.
Just as the aim from Westminster might be to somehow time out these discussions until Holyrood dissolves in the hope that somehow the EU referendum will allow extra spending on campaigning by the unionist parties pretending it’s for that rather than Holyrood. The aim might be to squeeze the SNP to as small a majority as possible or, as a longshot, into either a coalition or outright opposition. Perhaps even that possibility is meant to push the SNP into accepting the current offer in order that it be in place before they loose power.
It’s probably sneaky shits at Treasure leaking to Record clown show to put the bite on Swinney. Treasury showed themselves to be nothing more than another tory UK.gov propaganda attack outfit Scotland 2014, so they’re more than capable of very dirty tricks. All they need is a compliant BetterTogether dope and up steps one, a very big one.
There’s a whole range of Treasury vote NO whoppers out there, safe secure pensions for loyal Brits in their Scotland region, if they vote No, is just one of their biggest.
Oh Dear, Swinney and Sturgeon have sold out?
It must be true cos the Record says so. 🙂
The Daily Record never lies:
The EG and WM actually have agreed… to disagree.
And today in make belief land……
dont forget to stay tuned for more lies later
Ah the peoples chumpion they just cant help themselves can they, always got to make stuff up.
To be honest, I suspect the Daily Record staff themselves ARE more pro YES than pro NO, which is why I don’t join in the hopes the DR goes to the wall. Indeed, I’d prefer it to “reassess its editorial poistion”.
As regards the DR political editor,
is there any thing beneath ‘beneath contempt’,
we need a new word to describe the level of incompetence of DR political editor.
Tune in to Scot parly at 5.30pm
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/702170986100166656
Until this current DevoSmithLite is done and dusted, either passed or completely rejected, the SNP cannot easily pursue more devolution.
If it is left in limbo, then further Devo is in limbo. Playing for time suits WM.
IMO the SNP want to move on and pursue the Vow, which most people in Scotland agree is not the current Scotland Bill. That was what Cameron promised and he shouldn’t be let off the hook.
Perhaps, the SNP in reality want to go through the motions of pursuing the Vow ie DevoMax/FFA so that WM/Tories can explicitly be seen to say we are not getting it.
While we are bogged down delayed with this current shambles, moving on to the demand the promised levels of Devo (or else) can’t happen.
A strong stance entering this election would be ..
“Right Mr Cameron, now that crock of shite is out of the way, can we get back to pre referendum promises and the Vow? Will you deliver or won’t you?”
@Hoss Macintosh – agree the Lord Darling one is hilarious, can’t believe that DR eejit thought it was real.
Didn’t know there was a spoof Maggie Vaughn, thought that was real
I’ve read with amusement articles on the website of a certain blogger greatly beloved of Wings, the thrust of the argument being that “no detriment” applies only at “point of implementation”. And that therefore any talk of Scotland losing £3 billion over 10 years is rubbish, SNP bad, we should take the risk, the SNP is uneasonable
I think it’s time to treat that argument with the derision it deserves, and stand it on its head, so here goes.
Roughly say it’s £11 billion of Income Tax (ignore the rest) being devolved to Scotland, so to compensate for that, the block grant “at point of implementation” will be reduced by £11 billion. There is no argument about that, by either side, or by anyone at all. It’s agreed, it’s self-evidently fair and “no detriment”.
If the “no detriment” only applies “at point of implementation”, then the block grant could similarly be reduced by £11 billion in year 2, year 3, … year 10. That embraces fully the concept of “no detriment at point of implemenation”.
But in year 10 the block grant would have increased by using the current Barnett formula, so would income tax receipts in Scotland and the rest of the UK, even if just by inflation. But only £11 billion would be cut from the block grant, because of the devolution of Income Tax under the Scotland BIll 2015.
This would lead, for the sake of argument, to the UK losing out by £3 billion. The UK would therefore have suffered “detriment”, by the mere act of devolution of the Income Tax powers themselves.
So do these daft as a brush incompetent self-claimed “economists”, think that is a fair deal for the UK, that it meets the principle of “no detriment”? Maybe they do, they’re that thick.
There’s none so blind as SNP-haters, and it’s time to start gently pointing out the incredible fallacies in their blind rage and hate arguments. Clearly “no detriment” needs to be applied to any mechanism to autmatically reduce the block grant to correspond to the devolution of income tax.
You put your left in, your left leg out, in, out, in, out, and shake it all about….
Impressive – a busy timetable but Nicola refutes the Daily Record tweet one minute later. What multi-tasking skills!
BBC news website (I know, I know) reporting this as a done deal. Sturgeon to make statement to MSPs at 5:30.
Me @ 4:50
And
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/holyrood-should-demand-better-devolution-offer-from-westminster/
We need to move forward to demanding the levels of Devo which were firstly promised, and secondly which a significant percentage of Scots say they want.
My own view has always been that WM will tell us to fck off regarding decent levels of Devo. Good! That needs to happen. The table needs to be cleared so everyone knows that there is only going to be a choice of DevoFA or Indy.
Pissing around with SmithLite has wasted enough time.
Onwards says:at 4:11 pm
“In the meantime, people get used to paying their personal taxes towards Scottish services. That seems like a big mental step towards full self government.”
Yes. If, as I hope, we introduce progressive income tax that also reinforces social democracy, psychologically. All right Jack may move out. Others will internalise it. As England becomes more and more a neoliberal neo-Victorian dystopia. Compare and contrast.
And don’t forget the machinery of Statehood. Build organisational capacity in regard of tax collection at Revenue Scotland and in regard of social security. Build a borrowing track record which is a pre-requisite for an independent currency.
Yes it’s a trap. But there are also plus points.
Can’t help wondering if they’re attempting a tribute to BBC Radio Scotland’s ‘Breaking The News’ comedy panel game.
So this is how the Daily Redcoat gets its news. They know if they ask anyone close to the two Govts they’ll be told to get stuffed so, what do they do? They tweet a false positive to see if it will be denied. If it is denied then they know that the ‘negotiations’ haven’t produced anything (yet). That’s how they get the info they want. Sturgeon shouldn’t have responded.
EBC (S…..d) reporting fiscal framework is a done deal.
@Capella
Sturgeon seems to be getting very active refuting the media on twitter. I presume she’s alerted by someone appointed as media watcher. Be alert, Scotland needs Lerts!
“we need a new word to describe the level of incompetence of DR political editor”
How about “Record-breaking” incompetence?
@liz
Lord Darling on Twitter is just ace and you can have a good going Twitter argument with him. Always comes back with some crackers.
Maggie Vaughan’s Twitter account is real but she really hates the Darling one. 🙂
She is completely batshit crazy – one of the worst loony yoonies on Twitter – Frankly.
Fortunately, I am now blocked by her and the Record!
🙂
BBC
An agreement has been reached between the Scottish government and the Treasury over future Scottish spending.
The deal covers the fiscal framework which will accompany the new tax powers due to come to Scotland from next year.
BBC Scotland understands that the deal involves a five year programme during which there would be no automatic cuts to Scotland’s budget arising from the devolution of new powers.
Derick fae Yell says:
“Yes. If, as I hope, we introduce progressive income tax that also reinforces social democracy, psychologically.”
After Indy, I couldn’t agree more. Move to a Scandinavian model.
However, while we are still part of right wing UK and send vast chunks of our tax south for their debt repayments, for their ‘national infrastructure’ projects, and for their Imperialist foreign adventures and WMD … We run the risk of having the worst of both worlds if we have higher income tax.
There are no plans to devolve all welfare and benefits or any pensions to Holyrood. WM will continue to control most things should the Scotland Bill ever be implemented.
If the SB does pass, it has to be seen as a temporary ineffective setup. One way or another we need to move way beyond it to achieve the kind of Scotalnd most say they want.
I agree with your sentiments, I just don’t think the current Scotland Bill can achieve very much. It has been designed to be ineffective, IMO.
http://www.scottishparliament.tv/
For me “This browser does not allow you to watch this video”.
Anyone got any alternative source?
If you want to witness your country being f/k d over I suggest you seek out the Scotland Bill debate yesterday in the House of Lords , where you will see unelected English & Scottish Lords taking it in turn to rubbish your country and decide your future , tell them to stick it up their arses John .
From what I see on the BBC it was the Treasury that blinked to table a new offer to the Scottish Government.
@galamcennalath
No reason why they still can’t campaign for far more powers or independence. It’s pretty clear the current deal is insufficient.
But the alternative would have been NOTHING at all or an even worse deal. Plenty of Tories aren’t keen on any further devolution, as they think it will just cause constant grievance over finances leading to independence. The vow was a last minute panic measure.
Forsyth and Darling in the Lords yesterday.. not happy with full income tax devolution being rushed through. It breaks the electoral connection with UK wide services such as defence.
Tonight Matthew I’m going to be A.Darling.
“Don’t be silly .Nobody will believe you”…How wrong was that.?
No make up required.Just a twitter account.
@bookie from hell
That would be safe, just the fun of negotations every year – which is kind of like happens anyway.
Pretty obvious way to do it, looking back, rather than some impossible automatic method. Then it can be based on what’s happened. rather than some wild predictions of what might happen.
Derick fae Yell says:
23 February, 2016 at 5:05 pm
..If, as I hope, we introduce progressive income tax that also reinforces social democracy, psychologically. All right Jack may move out. Others will internalise it. As England becomes more and more a neoliberal neo-Victorian dystopia.
——
If there is to be a 5 year review, then its going to be hard to change income tax rates, without sabotaging the chances for a fair deal in the future.
This chart shows a projected shortfall over time due to the population trend.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Screen-Shot-2016-02-11-at-15.36.21-1-600×334.png
If taxes are raised higher than England and Wales in the meantime, then any shortfall will be blamed on that change and the SNP will be pinned with the blame rather than the framework itself.
Nicola live
http://www.scottishparliament.tv/
They gave in!
So let me see if I have got this straight, Scotland has been granted some road sign changing power,s and in return the UK gets to kick the sh’t out of us in 5 years.
Well I’m not expert, but where’s the up side.
Bugger, can’t watch it, I’ll have to wait for the Rev to put it up. Firefox 44.0.2 totally up to date but can’t see it. Mind you I’m on Windows XP and some older all the other stuff, should have fired up the laptop (Vista).
I’m incandescent, that,s why me typings crap.
Oh god, the dreaded words.
“Next question, Willy Rennie”
GROAN.
So, anyway, look like the new ‘kiddy=on’ powers (aka Smith ultra-lite) will be delivered then. Still leaves us waiting for the vow to be delivered – you know, as close to federalism as possible, a new ‘home rule’ for Scotland.
Today’s deal is baloney, but will be used as a very big stick with which to beat the Scottish Government and the SNP.
Marvellous.
Onwards says:
“But the alternative would have been NOTHING at all or an even worse deal.”
It’s all loose change, this, less or nothing. As far as I can see there are absolutely no economic controls/levers being delivered. Just potential for a little bit of social tinkering, and my fear is that without growing an economy – focusing in renewables, supporting oil and gas, more manufacturing, food and drink, construction projects, jobs, more tax take through growth – a bit of social tinkering from higher income tax may benefit a few and negatively effect everything else.
My real issue is that I am convinced WM will never ever allow significant Devo. They just keep dangling a few more scraps and the years roll on.
We can take Indy anytime we choose.
We have to ask politely for more Devo and WM may, if they see advantage for themselves, give a few more powers. Then another decade rolls past.
IMO we need to reach a crystal clear point where WM say, “you Jocks have got all you are getting”, then we all know where we stand.
I’m not anti Devo, I just firmly believe WM is fundamentally anti Devo!
@One_Scot
With Income Tax it’s maybe 30% towards FFA, and Sturgeon’s already said she’ll be pushing for more and more powers to be devolved. That leaves less of a step to Independence, less change for the People of Scotland to be afraid of next Ref. For me it automatically leads by stages to Indy.
But I also think the new powers can be genuinely useful, if one or two things I’ve seen are right – I’ll wait and see if / when the SNP some out with their manifesto.
Yeesss! First Minister confirms deal agreed and there will be detriment now, or in the future. Nicola struggling to keep the grin off her face.?
Well done John Swinney and the SNP….Greg Hands…David Mundell. …George Osborne…David Cameron your team took a hell of a beating!!?
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but has the SNP just given Westminster the authority to make our lives even shittier than they are now.
“…I can advise the chamber that within the last hour I have received further proposals from the Treasury which we will now take time to consider and it will be the test I have set out that we will judge these proposals against and take a reasonable view of them.
Presiding Officer, I am grateful for the opportunity to update parliament today, I think it was appropriate that I did so.
I hope that the Scottish Government will have support of parliament in seeking to secure, even at this eleventh hour, a deal that is fair to Scotland and that lives up to the promise that was made to the Scottish people.
“
– Nicola Sturgeon
From here: https://firstminister.gov.scot/fiscal-framework-update/
And we all know, that in five years time, what is being agreed about a ‘review’ will be ignored. Shocked that the SNP have accepted such piffle.
Genuinely did not expect the SNP to go for this.
I’ve only got three rules in life, and one of them just happens to be, once you’ve signed something, your F’cked.
Need to remember it still has to get through Westminster
I’ll wait and see,some kind of deal had to be done but I don’t trust Westminster.According to the vow makers,whatever comes out in the deal is supposed to be as near to federalism /home rule as possible. If the vow is reneged on,then independence is next.
Don’t know why folk are against this as no detriment has been agreed.
I trust JSwinney in financial matters, I’m sure he knows what he is doing.
As to ‘5 years down the line’. hopefully the plan is we will be independent by then
galamcennalath says:
23 February, 2016 at 5:46 pm
It’s all loose change, this, less or nothing. As far as I can see there are absolutely no economic controls/levers being delivered.
I agree, and that’s why the SNP need to keep pushing for more significant powers and independence.
But the #1 change here will be the mood change now peoples incomes taxes will now be going to Scotland for the first time. Why stop there?
Even if they can’t realistically be used for now with this future review, it is still better than nothing.
And personally I don’t think a gradual phasing out of Barnett would have been the end of the world. It would make independence far more likely. A short term loss for a long term gain.
I trust wingers will write to unionist press / bbc phone ins to point to to George Osborne and Ian Murray that
(a) The “near federal” Vow has not been delivered
and
(b) Scottish Parliament will not be the “strongest devolved parliament in the World”
not least as the five main taxes, other than income tax, will remain firmly under Westminster control.
I totally trust Swinney and Sturgeon on this, absolutely 100,000000000%. I think this is a very important step forward on the parallel path to Independence. And I think it’s 6 years till 2022 (5 years after it takes effect).
Now, ironically, I think is the time for a little bit of healing between Holyrood and Westminster, a pause in that battle, to come fresh after the Holyrood elections.
There’ll be plenty of time after 8th May and up to the 23rd June – and after. Time to restring the outrageous slings and bows and sharpen the arrows of fortune.
Doesn’t stop us, all the same.
Apologies if this has already been linked to.
http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Fiscal-Framework-22e8.aspx
Yet again the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Scotland show the unionist lap dogs in Holyrood how negotiations are carried to win the best deal for Scotland.
They started from a point of “no detriment” and they have finished with “no detriment.” Not only have they achieved this but in 6 years time Westminster is STILL hog tied to the no detriment aspect UNLESS the Scottish government agrees to their changes. 😀
James Kelly re fiscal framework
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/yes-campaigns-legacy-is-now-secure.html
@Sinky
Sturgeon already said a few weeks ago that during the next parliamentary term she would be pushing for the rest of Smith to be delivered, and then for more powers, right up to FFA.
Oh, and get Scotland ready for Independence.
Not a widely reported interview, for some odd reason.
@Lesley-Anne
Exactly. Sturgeon made it clear in fat that the Treasury are signing up to the pre capita indextaion, temporarily for 5/6 years. So no change then means it’s the deal Scotland wanted.
But the detail will need to be checked out and fortunately, Willi Rennie has said he’s going to do exactly that!
Which is perfect …
i have voted snp for 35 years and i cannot believe nicola sturgeon has agreed to sign off this deal.honestly if so she has just surrendered to the west minister establishment and the unionist leeches in scotland .this feels just as bad as losing the referendum, and i am totally totally deflated and sad and i feel she has giving in for such miniscule powers just to appease all unionists and no voters . very sad day for scotland she has just walked straight into a wm trap very disillusioned snp supporter
Onwards says:
“that’s why the SNP need to keep pushing for more significant powers and independence.”
My take on that would be …
“that’s why the SNP need to keep pushing for more significant powers OR independence.”
My way of looking at it is, we push for more powers and then get knocked back so we have to go for Indy.
WM is just not up for serious Devo. They have had so many opportunities over such a long period and progress has been miserably slow.
That is my problem, I believe their strategy to play for time and string us along.
I wonder if this soul could get a job on a newspaper. His spell at the Daily Record might count as job experience. Maybe he could get an internship with the Glenshee Mercury.
I’m shocked and disappointed that this has been agreed. We achieved nothing.
I hope the Scottish Parliament kicks the deal out. Once its gone through Westminster it will be worth less than nothing
Evidence that “Lord” Alistair Darling is mad. Please read his latest twitterings on his twitter page. The luny describes himself as Lord Darling. First of all he criticised the SNP for not accepting the UK Government’s generous offer then when they do, they are in cahoots with the Tories. Vile he describes it.
marydoll says:
“I’m shocked and disappointed that this has been agreed …. will be worth less than nothing”
Indeed, but that is it now out of the way. SmithLite, yawn.
The next match in the series can begin.
The SNP can go into the May election demanding the Vow, pre ref promises, DevoMax, FFA, the long list of knocked back amendments. The important aspect is a time limit now, “deliver or else.”
Anybody think it’s weird that Dugdale is hanging out in London with all that’s gone on today at Holyrood?
I trust Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney without reservation. They have taken us one more step towards Independence.
@galamcennalath
Yes, the SNP have had no choice the last 17 months but play the Smith game, diligently and genuinely. And be seen to do so.
Next 👿
@Anne,
That Darling account caught a lot of people out today.It is a spoof account to wind up the Unionists
I am still unsure about this but I do trust John Swinney’s judgement. He has not let us down thus far.
For me the big test will be tomorrow, to see the BritNats’ reaction to this deal as the dust settles. If the usual suspects are spitting blood, then it probably means that John and Nicola are taking back to Scotland more than expected. If the smug unionist gits are smirking like Cheshire cats, then they think they have won, that is they ‘think’ they have won. If a deal has indeed been made, then the BritNat’s may have achieved yet another phyrric victory.
Heh, six years and no detriment. 🙂
That should just about do it.
Well done the SG.
My reading of the deal so far, and I do have reservations.
Nicola played hardball with Cameron. Give what we want or you will have one hell of a constitutional crisis right in the middle of your EU Ref. And the pig blinked, twice!
We have to see how it pans out but at the moment I think this will good for Scotland in the long run.
“This deal will ensure that the funding for Scotland cannot be changed without the Scottish Government’s agreement. It protects the Barnett formula. And it will allow the powers in the Scotland Bill to be delivered.”
That’s what I need to see.
Dugdale was priceless today on Daily Politics. Firstly she laid into the SNP to be more progressive and raise the income tax. Then she agreed the powers to raise taxes etc should be refused if there was any sign of detriment,,and she thought the SNP position was correct.
Who briefs this woman?
Crikey I don’t know about every one else but I feel wrung out. I hope J Swinney is having a nice drink round about now.
Right then, now for a central bank.
I wonder if this last minute deal for Scotland and Boris coming for OUT are related? After all, Cameron now has a much bigger battle to fight, much bigger than he expected, and the last thing he surely wants is another two-fronter?
Could be that Cameron and Osbourne capitulated at the last minute? Not that the corporate media will ever put it that way. Tomorrow’s headlines (squeazed under the big story that Boris’s cat was seen having a continental breakfast) will range from:
“Vow delivered” to “Cameron outfoxes Swinney and Sturgeon”.
You have been warned.
Agreed….In Principle!!
Which is not the same as pop the champagne corks or anything else joyous
The SNP have just spent a year negotiating something they shouldn’t have had to, in order to get the Yookay to honour it’s own promises, that the lying Bastirts didn’t want to do in the first place
Barnett Formula, Block Grant, Funding Arrangement
All of these terms dreamt up by Westminster to give the impression They’re giving us something when we’ve been given nothing
Our money was ours to start with, they just took it and handed some of it back and then called it by another name to make the thick English and Yoons believe somehow England subsidised Scotland and the Labour party and their pals the happy Yoon media latch right on with their wee paws sticking up and begging for treats like Londons wee Dugs
Now they’ve got the impertinent cheek to think they can somehow make remarks on what we decide to do or not do with our own Fukcing money
Just who do these people think they are
Most powerful blah blah blah, they still owe us billions and still they’ll pretend they’re doing us a favour, all done in the most patronising and best possible taste of course
Arrogant Bastirts
SNPx2
Eh – haud on a minute folks! Was Fluffy nae supposed to be giving his tuppence worth tae the holyrood committee round about now via video link? Hey maybe naebodys telt him and he’s talking tae an empty room! Shame 🙂
So, no near federalism. Who knew?
I reckon the SG (playing a blinder) have just bought the Scottish electorate the time and opportunity required to right a wrong. If, as expected, the Tories are set to remain in power well past 2020, does anyone seriously expect either Gideon or Bojo will give up on austerity ideology?
We’ve realistically got four years (+2 if needed).
Let’s make them work for us. 🙂
Can’t imagine Swinney or Sturgeon would accept any deal that is likely to compromise their ability to govern for the betterment of Scotland.
I’d like to think that the 6yr no detriment period is a reflection of their confidence on what will happen after that.
That is a healthier Scottish economy and demographics in favour of Independence.
And if we get rid of APD,we can raise a toast to Nicola when on our cut price hols in Benidorm.Even die hard Unionists will raise their San Miguels to that.
Surely.
Am I being cynical? I do not trust the ‘Westmidden’ sleeze bags.
We’ll see what happens in the very near future.
hi folks new to w.o.s. just take it easy on me ok. i have been an snp supporter for 35 years now and my heart and soul bleeds independence in fact i would give my life up for an independent scotland i cried when we lost the independence vote and it took a while to gather my self and carry on . what drove me on were the lies and the devious underhanded tactics by the bbc and stv and the west minster govt and my no voting friends and especially this demeaning paltry vow which looks like nicola sturgeon is going to accept and for which i am very very disappointed . as far as im concerned its a trap and nothing but a trap the wm govt are reeling her in and some of the posters on here as well. frankly i am now very disillusioned and angry again and very disappointed that the snp party will accept this deal.
@Giving Goose says: 23 February, 2016 at 4:09 pm
,i>”How do you pronounce his name?”
So we have Foote with wan e’e and Kaye wi wan e’e
It has to be said – whit a pair!
@Nana
Me too. Think I’ll have a little rest too 🙂
But – I think this is the start of it now, not the end. I have a feeling I’m going to be saying “You ain’t seen nothing yet” a few times the next months, let alone the next year or two.
@yesindyref2 says: 23 February, 2016 at 5:23 pm:
“http://www.scottishparliament.tv/
For me “This browser does not allow you to watch this video”.
Anyone got any alternative source?”
It just may be true, Yesindyref2.
Microsoft has stopped supporting or updating Internet Explorer. Their new Browser is up and running but only works for Windows 10.
Which is what that, “This browser does not allow you to watch this video”, is probably all about. The problem is that Google Chrome is also about to ditch support for Chrome in windows XP and Vista.
@clan rossy
Welcome, pull up a chair, sit close I’m sure you have plenty to share and we’re happy to hear it 🙂
If the records writing staff are propionately more in favour of independence that union.
I assume then that the paper operate and editorial policy that mean the writing staff work script not their on oppinon.
So propionately your staff are as unhappy with the nonsence you have them write as we were with reading it, that’s a lot of unhappy people. The Record spreading misery & other stuff where ever it goes.
@Robert Peffers
Thanks. Yes I might have to bite the bullet and upgrade the two desktops to Win 7 Pro. There were deals for about £15, didn’t have the money spare, but lowest I found now is £21.
Hi clan rossy
Welcome, and stick around, a lot of sensible heads here.
Dry your eyes, Sturgeon and Swinney would never walk us into a financial trap. They have been telling Cameron gtf with his trap, and we will take powers with not a PENNY of detriment.
I’m a member too, and I’m happy that they have a deal that helps the people of Scotland.
thepnr and valerie Thanks for the welcome much appreciated. its just very frustrating that the snp are going to accept these demeaning and miniscule powers . i know there reason for it and to take it bit by bit but how long is that going to 5 /10/15 years no chance .i want scotland to be independent now declare udi if we win the scottish elections .and stop trying to appease the soft no voters and scottish unionists and the scottish media . its not just me i know a lot of people who are getting p….d of with this softly softly approach
Re; clan rossy
I think the Scotgov are a bit more savvy and astute, than you think. From billions to zero detriment is good going. The thing is whether the unionists have something up their sleezy sleeves. Time will tell.
As far as the SNP are concerned, I am sure you will be familiar with the phrase, softly softly, catchy monkey, they know what they are doing.
@clan rossy
Hi nice to hear a new voice,
the problem Scotland has is that a majority of frightened citizens voted for their country to be beasted by a bigger country,
Nicola wants the best for all Scots,even the cowards,she has to take whatever scraps Westminster offers because the frightened citizens voted to stay under the yoke of Westminster,
because of the cowards Westminster does not have to give Scotland anything,it could make Scotland a wasteland if it so desired,
so because of the frightened citizens Nicola has to bend the knee sometimes to get anything from Westminster.
anyhoo,remember paragraph breaks or Stu will bash your brains out with a hammer 🙂
@clan rossy
Scot goes pop has an article about this. There are some in the Indy movement think it’s great, there are some think it’s bad.
Hey, we disagree about something!
I wont be breaking oot the gleeses yit ,its still got to go back to Westmidden & HoL, so spokes in the wheels tae come.
This deal offers austerity busting stability at a very risky time.
Have faith, deep breath, powder dry, still hungry.
Now, we move the agenda to growth with compassion.
The rich will not get richer at the expense of the rest..not here.
Fair enough?
@galamcennalath
The SNP can go into the May election demanding the Vow, pre ref promises, DevoMax, FFA, the long list of knocked back amendments. The important aspect is a time limit now, “deliver or else.”
Exactamente, comrade. If WM thinks they can go off and ignore us again, we have more socks filled with wet sand just waiting to be used. Our ScotGov won’t let up for a second. 🙂
Very very WELL DONE John Swinney and team, WELL DONE our Nicola and our Scottish Government!
Phew! That was a real cliff hanger and Westminster buckled.
No member of the SNP, or any Yes voter, wanted the ‘Vow’ but that is what we have to deal with for now.
I have absolute faith in the SNP and their political acumen.
Yesterday’s outcome vindicates my faith in the abilities of the SNP and fair puts a smile on my face! = )
Just to rub salt into the wounds, this very article now reads like the Daily Record is infinitely better informed than our First Minister.