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An absence of clarity

Posted on December 04, 2015 by

On Wednesday the Daily Record ran this story:

mcgarrysyria

It didn’t have to wait long for the “questions” to be answered.

The article, by the paper’s Westminster correspondent Torcuil Crichton, smelled rather fishy from the off. Citing unnamed “online critics”, it piled innuendo onto McGarry’s fact-finding trip to the troubled Middle Eastern nation. (We’re going to assume nobody suggested it was actually a fun holiday.)

“MP Natalie McGarry was at the centre of fresh controversy yesterday over a trip to Syria.

The politician – suspended from the SNP while police investigate a campaign group’s finances – visited the war-torn country in October on a fact-finding mission.

Online critics have accused her of using taxpayers’ money to fund the trip. McGarry took to Twitter to deny that and say the trip was in the Commons register of members’ interests. But a check of the register showed no entries by McGarry since she became an MP in May.

She declined to say how the trip was funded. A spokeswoman for the Commons register said the files were updated every few weeks.”

That’s a “story” of remarkable weakness. We don’t know who’s supposedly made these allegations, and the Record admits from the off that the declaration may well simply not have been processed and published by the House Of Commons staff yet.

As it happened, however, the files were updated that very same day:

mcgarryinterests

The Parliamentary records show that McGarry was telling the truth – no taxpayers’ money had been spent on the trip, which was funded by New World Summit, a European artistic and political organisation.

But that’s all very well, because having raised readers’ suspicions over potential wrongdoing on the basis of anonymous internet gossip, the Record immediately cleared the matter up by publishing the correct facts in a new and equally prominent story as soon as possible, right?

searchnm

Well, okay, but it least amended the original piece on its website, yes?

searchnm2

Must have forgotten. But having been directly told on Twitter by McGarry herself, and also by this site, either the Record account or Crichton’s personal one must have tweeted something – either a proper correction or at least an RT of McGarry’s tweet informing them of the reality. That would obviously be the barest minimum possible for the preservation of, or pretence at, any sort of journalistic ethics. How about that?

searchnm3

That’s strange. Absolutely nothing. It almost seems as if the paper WANTED anyone looking for information about Natalie McGarry to come away with a false impression of potential wrongdoing completely and conclusively disproven by easily-available facts that the Record had been clearly and repeatedly made aware of.

But we’re sure there’s an innocent explanation.

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305 to “An absence of clarity”

  1. David White says:

    It’s not propaganda, it’s not spin, it’s just stone cold, deliberate lies. And still, the amount of people I know who read this and take it at face value..

  2. Macart says:

    The media’s ethical compass is so fucked up I doubt they could find their own arse without the aid of a six man search party and GPS.

  3. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    That is surely several lies published wilfully.

    We really must take the Record down.

  4. blackhack says:

    [B]But we’re sure there’s an innocent explanation.[/B]

    Aye, it’s the daily record….they wouldn’t know the truth if it bit them on the arse…

  5. Bruce L says:

    But we’re sure there’s an innocent explanation.

    Admit it, Rev, you’re being sarcastic again aren’t you?

  6. Az says:

    The Daily Redcoat is a disgrace and an embarrassment to Scotland.

  7. Lollysmum says:

    Daily Record & the Truth-never knowingly seen together

    Are we getting closer to legal action here because this is outright lies?

  8. alexicon says:

    That rag with its red tory apparatchik Crichton is just an English based propaganda newsheet.
    His counterpart over in the Herald, Gardham, is going to town with the anti SNP stories at the moment.
    I take it they’ve had the call from Labour headquarters.

  9. Bob Mack says:

    Not like you to get the headline wrong Rev. It is not an absence of clarity. It is an absence of truth.

  10. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill says: 4 December, 2015 at 11:23 am:

    “That is surely several lies published wilfully.

    We really must take the Record down.”
    Why bother, Dave? They are doing a very good job of bringing themselves down.

    “Leave them alone and they’ll come home, bringing their tales behind them.”

  11. bobajock says:

    Somewhat indicative of how close to toilet paper it has become.

  12. Scott Campbell says:

    Tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth does it not? Msm is dying, long live wings

  13. John Sellars says:

    #dontbuyTheRecord

  14. Donald MacKenzie says:

    Yeh, you’re right, Rev. Just an innocent mistake. Something overlooked by The Record, which it will no doubt quickly and very visibly correct, thus maintaining it’s very high standards of honesty and integrity.

    Oh dear, it’ll be time to waken up soon!

  15. Andrew Coulson says:

    Ms Dugdale could not bribe or twist, thank God,
    A Record journalist:
    But seeing what the swine will do
    Unbribed,
    She’s no occasion to!

  16. handclapping says:

    @alexicon
    Having seen Kez’s FMQ performances you cannot still think Labour has any sentient beings in its headquarters. Chrichton and Gardham are the closest that Labour has to party policy.

  17. yesindyref2 says:

    No idea how the Record is doing. Even in an “important” thread in the Herald, a pro-SNP / pro-Indy post is struggling to get 30 upvotes these days. The wijournos are struggling to get 30 letters in a row right, and that includes their name.

  18. Doug McG says:

    It is time for the SNP / Scottish Government to do something about all this blatant propaganda. A few more strident demands for parity of treatment by the corp media or power to make these rags print equal and prominent apologies would be a start . They must be straying over the line of libel at least some of the time , I hope the day of reckoning is due for them.

  19. galamcennalath says:

    Bob Mack says:

    “Not like you to get the headline wrong Rev. It is not an absence of clarity. It is an absence of truth”

    From a legal recourse point of view, it is the lack of actual lie ie. false personal claims, that is the problem. The DR know what they are doing. They sail very close to the wind, but just short of defamation.

    They manage to corrupt the world view of a dwindling gullible group. That isn’t right, but I don’t think they are open to legal action, sadly.

    There is nothing I would like to hear more concerning the CorpMedia than people suing the ass off them!

  20. findlay farquaharson says:

    they aint happy natalie took currans seat

  21. Big Jock says:

    They can make all the lies up they want. Next May more people will be leaving the Labour party, aftr the Commons betrayal. Backing up the Tory warmongers will not be forgotten.

    This time next May people will be asking why they are still bombing Syria, and why terrorists are still on the loose.

    Labour may fall below 15%.

  22. Charles says:

    ah screw it, Torcuil Crichton is a liar and a cheat. He screwed behind his wifes back with a certain Samantha McArthur, who used to work for BBC world service Portugal.

    This was always kept hush hush, as Samanthas family were embarrassed by the relationship, her dad at the time was Bill McArthur who you may remember was the cartoonist for the Herald (when it was a paper! ) they stayed on Isle of Sandy ( Orkney )and this was never to get out to the islanders, as it would have been a scandal.

    He is a wee free from Stornoway, who took the unionist bowler hat and replaced it with a wanky Glasgow west end craveat. Pretends to be intelligent, but is just a womanising creep. Likes to haunt the delicatessans, and trendy bars, mixing his gaelic with his spirits.

    ..but his best pall at the time, has moved on, that was Samanthas brother Liam…yes Liam McArthur.

    All true.

  23. gerry parker says:

    Natalie should call them out in Parliament for the liars that they are.

  24. alexicon says:

    Even in an “important” thread in the Herald, a pro-SNP / pro-Indy post is struggling to get 30 upvotes these days

    That’s because you have to sign up to the Herald to upvote and I’ll not do that.
    I used to be a regular contributor (Alex Buchanan) to the comments section,but not now because of their anti SNP, pro Labour stance.

  25. farnorthdavie says:

    Just another angle on this, how much of a delay would one normally expect with entries on the register?

    Is/was someone in Westminster ‘dragging their heels’ deliberately perhaps to develop a negative SNP story?

    I would be very suspicious of the register update happening the same day, bet someone has had to explain why it took over a month to publish this. Even the Dirt Raker quotes an update every few weeks.

  26. Ruby says:

    alexicon says:
    4 December, 2015 at 11:36 am
    That rag with its red tory apparatchik Crichton is just an English based propaganda newsheet.
    His counterpart over in the Herald, Gardham, is going to town with the anti SNP stories at the moment.
    I take it they’ve had the call from Labour headquarters.

    Ruby Replies

    It seems he’s also got Ruth Davidson on his speed dial list.

    It looks as if all Gardham does is phone up Willie Rennie, Jackie Baillie, Murdo Fraser, Ruth Davidson etc and asks them what they would like written in The Herald.

    Hence the reason for so many SNP accused stories!

  27. fifi le bons lovechild. says:

    Labour supporting paper publishes an SNP bad article(s).
    Nothing new there.
    It is also well known that Crichton is a liar and an embarrassment to our island.

  28. The daily stranger will use any bit of unsubstantiated tittle tattle do to down and smear any SNP politician.

    That it hasn’t apologised for the false impression it gave when it ran the story about Natalie McGarry’s fact finding trip to Syria, is not unexpected.

    I also noticed it continued its attack on the new queen Elizabeth super hospital in Glasgow with a story about a patient not having been fed for 8 hours.

    I must admit I was surprised to see it gave such prominence at the top of page 2 of the Hospital’s rebuttal of the story as to why the patient couldn’t be fed.

  29. DerekM says:

    What kind of journalist runs with a story based on what someone said on social media.

    Did Natalie knock him back for a date or something this stinks of sheer spite.

    But then it is the Daily Retard we are talking about facts are not exactly their strong point making shit up and running with it regardless is.

  30. Bob Mack says:

    Just heard that 3Mp’s being investigated by police for expenses. No names given as yet.

  31. Wulls says:

    also…….is McGarry suspended from the SNP ?????
    I was under the impression she had relinquished the party whip voluntarily until the investigation was concluded.
    Another lie ?????

  32. yesindyref2 says:

    @alexicon
    I was going to pack up but since I don’t feel I “must” post now (Peter Piper), I just have some fun. Nothing outrageous, but it means I don’t have to spend time doing research to refute the rubbish that gets posted. And that includes below the line!

  33. Cherry says:

    Is it a coincidence that the government’s files were updated on the same day the DR covered the non-story? Am I seeing unionist collusion everywhere?

    I am so sick of this..I watched Diomhair (schh! it’s a secret) I think it was Nana that put up the link. I’d watched it before and it was worth a second viewing…however it’s made me more angry, if that’s possible.

    Here’s a question for those with more knowledge than me. If we (Scots) have the proof from the archived files about McCrone,the dodgy redrawing of land/sea boundaries, the petition with 2 million signatures which disappeared, surely that’s evidence that Westminster was/is deliberately smothering our right of self determination. Am I just whistling in the wind…

  34. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Magrit is really kicking herself after letting McGarry wionm.

    With the Bombing of Syria vote this week, she no longer gets invited to the lavish City Dinners given by the various Arms industries profiting from the vote, which by past experience would have been pro.

    The 67th vote

  35. john king says:

    Rober Peffers
    ““Leave them alone and they’ll come home, bringing their tales behind them.””

    Phnarr phnarr. 🙂

    Has it reached the stage where people don’t even bother to raise a complaint with IPSO?

  36. Luigi says:

    How to be a good unionist journalist:

    1) Start with a blank piece of paper.

    2) Write “SNP Bad…” (that’s your headline).

    3) Try to be imaginative as possible.

    4) Stir up as much muck as you can.
    Don’t worry about libel (the big boys have your ass covered).

    5) Keep at it and you will be rewarded. Who knows?
    If you work hard, one day you may become another Dimbelbore or a Brillopad!

  37. asklair says:

    Met Police investigate expenses of two MPs

    https://archive.is/G88IB

  38. Luigi says:

    Cherry says:

    4 December, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    Am I seeing unionist collusion everywhere?

    Yep, you sure are. It’s always been so. The only difference now is the transparency because of social media. They know we are on to them, but they no longer care. It’s a sad, twisted, lonely, life being a unionist reporter, unloved and with no soul to speak of.

  39. Jim Mitchell says:

    Yes comment (lies) about that, but Scotland’s paper can not give an opinion on going to war. there’s courage for you!

  40. walter scott says:

    “Online critics” Just about anybody on the Scotsman comments columns

  41. Valerie says:

    FFS

  42. Lesley-Anne says:

    I am wondering here … yes I know … wondering is going against doctor’s orders but hey it’s Friday! 🙂

    Whilst the *ahem* article may not result in a law suit against the Labour daily news or the *cough* author does it not still fall within the realms of a complaint to I.P.S.O.?

    I only ask as has been proven by Stu the L.D.N. has printed a story that is proven to be a LIE.

    As we know I.P.S.O. are not the best at seeking out retribution against *cough* newspapers but I do believe we regular Wingers may actually know of someone who has had some success with I.P.S.O. in winning retribution against one or two LYING papers. 😉

  43. Lollysmum says:

    SNP rules state that if an MP refuses the whip then suspension from party membership is automatic. Both MP’s will have been very aware of this when making their decisions to refuse the whip.

  44. Lesley-Anne says:

    Wulls says:
    4 December, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    also…….is McGarry suspended from the SNP ?????
    I was under the impression she had relinquished the party whip voluntarily until the investigation was concluded.
    Another lie ?????

    Just like Michelle Thompson Natalie McGarry has resigned the SNP whip at Westminster whilst investigations are ongoing Wulls that means that they are suspended from the party.

    As soon as they are both cleared, as I fully expect them to be, they will be permitted to rejoin the party and take up the SNP whip again.

  45. Iain says:

    It must be terrible working for the daily record and knowing that in nine years all their readers will be gone, if it even lasts that long. They may tire of the daily diet of lies and talking Scotland down.

  46. David McDowell says:

    When is McGarry going to sue Crichton for the defamatory damage he is doing to her professional reputation? He can hardly use the defence it was “true”!

    This blatant lying in the media is not a political problem it is a social problem that subverts and devalues democracy for all of us.

    If McGarry doesn’t sue Crichton she gives him and his pals permission to keep doing it. She has a duty to the rest of us to put a stop to it.

  47. Proud Cybernat says:

    As two MPs are being investigated by the Met over their expenses I am sure the Daily Redcoat and the wider Idiot Press will be able to come up with some creative headline for their readership, like:

    “SNP claim the identity of the expenses scandal MPs has not been disclosed.”

    You see how the feckers operate. They forget that we, the people, know exactly how they operate. Do they really think their lies will help them? Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

  48. Lesley-Anne says:

    Resigning their membership and being suspended by the party whilst under investigation is what makes the two SNP M.P.’s stand out from all the unionist M.P>’s because unlike them the two SNP M.P.’s have shown they have INTEGRITY.

    This is something that is unknown in unionist circles. In the unionist camp it is expected that no matter how bad you have behaved, expenses or whatever, you are expected to continue with your unionist party membership up to and including the point you go to prison!

  49. Bill Fraser says:

    On and on we go with the lies and misleading reports.The Record should stick to football and leave subjects they seem to be incapable of reporting seriously.Listen to the rest of the country!!!

  50. Graham MacLure says:

    The daily record is, I think, a good indicator of the panic the Unionists are now in. They never had a logical case in support of the Union but managed to blag their way through the referendum. They are now trapped like rats in a corner as their empty rhetoric is peeled apart by time and events leaving them only lies,smears, weasel words and innuendo.
    On a slightly different tack could the SNP include negotiations for complete independence in their next manifesto?

  51. Al-Stuart says:

    4 December, 2015 at 11:23 am Dave McEwan Hill says: That is surely several lies published wilfully. We really must take the Record down.

    I agree with Dave McEwan Hill 100%.

    Whilst Robert Peffers (4 December, 2015 at 11:37 am) makes a good point…

    Why bother, Dave? They are doing a very good job of bringing themselves down.

    I am heartily sick of the LIES coming from the Daily Record.

    It is all good and well that WE here on this forum know (thanks to WoS and Stuart) that the likes of Torquil et al are lying, BUT what about that crucial 6% of the population that we need to go from NO to YES for IndyRef2?

    That is what the Dreadful Record and their ilk are counting on. That if they lie enough and make it SNP-Bad all the time, then a sufficient percentage of voters in that crucial 45% to 55% margin will stay in the NO camp.

    Surely the time has come to take the newspaper on at it’s own game.

    Just for the sake of discussion, what do folk reckon if we set up a Crowdfunder to pay for legal action in obtaining an Interdict (https://archive.is/ltFc#selection-2075.0-2077.208) AGAINST the Daily Record to stop their wilful lying.

    Laws such as http://e-lawresources.co.uk/Misrepresentation.php are being infracted.

    The purpose of such a crowdfunder would be to TAKE THE CASE OF THE MEDIA LYING to the front door of the Daily Record. This will put media misrepresentation right up the news agenda. An Interdict – if granted by the court – would also ensure this issue is subject to subsequent contempt of court proceedings against the Daily Record should any court order the crowdfunded campaign secure, be breached. At that stage we are talking about either custodial for Torquil or suspended sentence.

    If/when the Daily Record get a writ, there will be a feigned outcry about freedom of the press being curtailed . The rejoinder is whether that includes “freedom of the press to tell wilful lies with impunity“.

    I think Dave McEwan Hill maybe onto something.

    Anyone have a view on such an initiative?

    Surely the time has come for these chronic and persistent lies peddled by these tabloids to be challenged?

    Their lies are no harmless, nor victimless. The MSM (and Daily Record + Vow especially) have already CHEATED Scotland out of one independence referendum.

    I am damn sure they are not going to get away with this again.

  52. Peter says:

    She should take legal action.

  53. TheHairyHaggis says:

    I do believe that Natalie McGarry tweeted yesterday she has complained to IPSOS.

  54. Lollysmum says:

    Al-Stuart

    You need an opinion from a legal eagle who knows what he’s talking about. It’s possible that Lallands Peat Worrier is your man.

  55. Harry McAye says:

    How about a Wings t-shirt with “The Daily Record Lies” on the front with maybe a few internet links underneath like this page today and on the back “For the truth, read Wings Over Scotland.com”?

  56. Rob James says:

    The two MP’s under expenses investigation can’t be ours. The media coverage would have taken priority over the Let’s Bomb Syria campaign.

    I just hope that the SNP roar from the rooftops that those parties involved suspend the accused.

    @ Dr Jim

    It won’t burn, you’ll just have to flush it away down the pan.

  57. Giving Goose says:

    Torcuil Crichton is a tool of the London Establishment.
    David Cameron will be proud of Torcuil.
    Torcuil is a Tory.

  58. Lollysmum says:

    O/T
    Scottish mum’s open letter to Cameron & Corbyn goes viral from Evening Times

    https://archive.is/lOABN

    Well done to Angela Kerrigan 🙂

  59. asklair says:

    More on “Met Police investigate expenses of two MPs”
    Were is the logic in this.
    “Although the names of MPs under investigation are published, the identities of those referred to the police have not been and the fact that they have been referred to the police was buried in three paragraphs on page 74 of a 77-page document.”
    Before an MP is referred to the police they must be investigated, so surely there must be public documentation on all the MPs who have been investigated, seeing there are time lines then identities of MPs could be published. Have I got something wrong here.
    Info from https://archive.is/bwsiu

  60. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @ Al Stewart, 12.39pm

    Count me in – I would be right up for such a crowd-funder.

  61. McBoxheid says:

    Bugger (the Panda) says:
    4 December, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    and from STV today, Law Society Report

    http://news.stv.tv/east-central/1334753-law-society-concludes-staff-did-not-interfere-in-investigation/

    I left my zuppence worth too

  62. Proud Cybernat says:

    This is, as Derek Bateman pointed out recently, the battle for Indy Ref2. The battle has already begun because the Idiot Press and the State Sponsored Broadcaster know its coming (sooner or later). Project Fear and Project Smear didn’t stop after IndyRef#1 which resulted in the meteoric rise of the SNP. The sabernats have to keep going with their rubbish and we should all understand that we are in the battle for Indy Ref#2 NOW.

    These anti-SNP fears and smears from the sabernats are all about ‘holding the line’; trying to plug the dam and prevent NO voters moving across to YES. But they are failing. (You hear that Daily Redcoat, Glasgow Herod – your propaganda is FAILING).

    Since IndyRef#1 the indy vote is now solidly around 49%. A rise of 4% from Sept 2014. After this week’s vote by the sabernats to drag Scotland into another illegal war Scots do not want, that support will easily rise to 55%+.

    No wonder there’s a panic in the sabernat’s breastie. They’re losing and they know it. I say let the Daily Redcoat, The Herod and The Hootsman keep doing what they’re doing because their daily lie fest is the best recruiting sergeant for indy we could possibly ever have.

    Keep it up guys. We love ya!

  63. marydoll says:

    I would be in for a crowdfunder against the DRs lies.

    I also think SNP should be more forthright in condemning the lies.

  64. heedtracker says:

    Why are they targeting Scottish women MP’s and who’s next? Mhairi Black.

    For sheer creepy as BetterTogether fcuk factor, Torquil is right up there with worst of them.

  65. Lollysmum says:

    O/T
    Kenny Farquarson getting pelters on Twitter for column in the Times (paywalled)

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/672756911561904128

  66. HandandShrimp says:

    Torquil the Liar

    Yet more evidence that the Record is the Daily Labour a propaganda sheet not a newspaper.

    On more optimistic news the by-election looks like Corbyn is secure for the months ahead. It should be entertaining if nothing else.

  67. MrObycyek says:

    We should bombard the Daily Record comments page each day and drown out the views of wetawds, as John Woodcock would say, like Keith Howell of West Linton and Martin Redfern of Royal Circus Edinburgh. I always get my kill at how to them every problem in Scotland is down to the SNP. They are bitter and twisted unionist arseholes.

    As for Torquil Crichton well with a name like that you would think he would keep quiet.

    “Hey Torquil yer tea’s oot!”
    “The name’s Torcuil, Torquil Crichton”
    “On the heid Torquil son!”

  68. Macart says:

    @Lollysmum

    No just the brightest bulb, is he?

    Oh jeez! 😀

  69. marydoll says:

    o/t

    Why has the closure of the Forth Road Bridge reached the dizzy heights of being reported on Radio 4? Mentioned the new bridge
    but not that it was an SG investment.

    Is it get at Scotland time again?

  70. A2 says:

    “The declaration may well simply not have been processed and published by the House Of Commons” Daily Record “staff yet.”

    :0

  71. kevin says:

    Even the most rabid, hateful anti-SNP follower has the common sense to regard this publication as wholly unreliable, and, I’m delighted to say, a liability to their arguments.

    Keep up the good work, Torchil – Daily Record to dip below 200k by 2016 on your watch!

  72. Lollysmum says:

    Heedtracker
    They’ve already tried Mhairi Black, Nicola Sturgeon, Philippa Whitford, Richard Arkless, & the list goes on.It’s what they do. Having said that, most of it falls on stony ground due to lack of facts to back up their tall tales so we see them for what they are.

    HELL YES! I’M UP FOR THE CROWDFUNDER & THE T SHIRT

  73. ahundredthidiot says:

    The DR is simply trying to hold on to their unionist readership, desperately so.

    They are not trying to convince us nor anyone else to their way of thinking.

    It is quite simply a pathetic rag, read by dumplings.

    That said, their Ed is fair game, if you’re going to give it out….

  74. Marcia says:

    You find a lot of info on journalist by reading these comments. In regards to ‘The Record’ most of the readers would be surprised if there were not an anti-SNP story as they have been running them since the 2nd November 1967. A sizeable part of the male readers only read the sports pages.

  75. Karmanaut says:

    I used to get really annoyed by the constant lies from papers like the Record, but it doesn’t bother me now.

    Because their sales continue to fall.

    Because at worst it makes no difference, and at best it has the opposite effect.

    The Herald’s front page, which attempts to use the bombing of Syria to smear the SNP, is so vile it debases the entire paper, reinforcing the idea of the Herald as poisonous gutter press.

    I feel sorry for the good journalists still working in some of these papers.

    It’s fine with me if unionists want to carry on soiling their own press. The more turds you leave in a sandpit, the fewer children will want to play in there.

  76. Lollysmum says:

    Yes some guy calling himself Tartan Jack on Twitter (few tweets, very few followers)is desperately tweeting everyone he can think of trying to scare up a protest. I just told him to grow up & blocked him! Don’t need my timeline soiled by idiots (or paid operatives) like that.

  77. Capella says:

    Have they found an SNPbad angle on the Forth Bridge closure yet?

  78. heedtracker says:

    Lollysmum says:
    4 December, 2015 at 1:43 pm
    Heedtracker
    They’ve already tried Mhairi Black, Nicola Sturgeon, Philippa Whitford, Richard Arkless

    This seems something much more sinister though.

    Demographically do women vote as much as men, how would you turn Scottish democracy into a total nightmare and why, if you were a lying reprobate like a Record hack?

  79. Another Union Dividend says:

    The hypocrisy of the Unionist Labour and Tory press cheerleaders knows no bounds and will intensify over the next five months.

    Outrageous that the two MPs referred to the Met to-day have not been named by our fearless press.

    Contrast the treatment of Thompson and McGarry with that for the disgraced former MP Nigel Griffiths who has just been appointed to lead the Labour No to Europe referendum campaign.

    Will the press dig up his office expenses scandal when he failed to register fact that he owned the constituency office for which he was claiming thousands of pounds a year in expenses? See second complaint Paragraph III below

    https://archive.is/P3qn3

    Previously he blatantly lied to local press when asked about his expenses by claiming that he rented it from a Trust.

    After been found guilty in 2002 by Elizabeth Filkin the Standards Commissioner who then resigned under Labour pressure who thought she was too strict the Labour dominated Standards Committee exonerated Griffiths.

    Or his sexual liaison on 90th anniversary Armistice Day in his Westminster Office? But it wasn’t deemed to breach Parliamentary Code of Conduct. Try that in any other job.

    https://archive.is/WAl3t

    btw the Silver spooned Red Tory Holyrood candidate for Morningside used to work in Nigel Griffth’s Westminster Office but doesn’t like to publicise it.

  80. Bob Mack says:

    @Capella,

    Not yet,but they might be trying to make inroads and bridge the gap to an association. Oops!!

    In fact there are the usual suspects trying to associate the bridge with the SNP. Absolute drivel. Mindnumbingly stupid people.

  81. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just out of curiosity.

    I wonder if this has any chance of gaining some momentum behind it.

    He said: “It’s ours, it’s always been ours. Scotland is independent. The Decoration of Arbroath’s for all time, eternity. It’s can’t be overturned, it can’t be changed, it even supercedes the Act of the Union. In Scotland, sovereignty lies with me and you. We’re Kings and Queens of this land.”

    https://archive.is/scGVJ

    http://www.constitution.org/scot/arbroath.htm

    As I recall the Treaty of Union made no mention of superseding the Declaration of Arbroath therefore the DoA is still relevant to the people of Scotland and who can rule over them and command them.

    In the DoA it mentions the killing and slaughtering of people in Scotland. In an oblique way is this not exactly what Iain Drunken Spliff is doing with his D.W.P. and their sanctions alongside ATOS or whoever else it is these days?

    The deeds of cruelty, massacre, violence, pillage, arson, imprisoning prelates, burning down monasteries, robbing and killing monks and nuns, and yet other outrages without number which he committed against our people, sparing neither age nor sex, religion nor rank, no one could describe nor fully imagine unless he had seen them with his own eyes.

  82. Robert Peffers says:

    @Az says: 4 December, 2015 at 11:29 am:

    “The Daily Redcoat is a disgrace and an embarrassment to Scotland.”

    The Record always was an embarrassment to Scotland – it was just most Scots hadn’t realised it until more recent years.

  83. TJenny says:

    Ooh! Oor Alex is on HIGNFY tonight – that should be interesting. 😉

  84. @Capella

    Forth Bridge closure,someone on twitter says,

    `SNP trying to divide country again`

    which i thought was almost funny for a yoon.

  85. Jamie Arriere says:

    The Daily Redcoat sales are already under 200,000 as of May 2015, and shite like that above is not going to gain one single new reader.

    We don’t need lawyers involved, just a priest to start delivering their last rites

    http://www.scottishgrocer.co.uk/2015/06/major-papers-in-may-sales-slump/

  86. DerekM says:

    @ Karmanaut

    What sandpit all i see is giant mound of turds ,is there a sandpit underneath well who would have guessed it 😉

    As for taking out the DR personally i think we should wait until after 2017,lets do for Labour first then we can turn our full attention to their propaganda lying dead tree press,and since their sales are dropping big time i see no need to go chasing after them,lets just grin and bare it for now their time will come soon enough,lets stick to the plan and fight one battle at a time 😉

    And on the two MP`s case i think we can be pretty certain they are not SNP MP`s or it would be splattered all over the dead tree press in full onion condemnation,more likely to be two important conservatives hence the failure to disclose names and the legal mumbo jumbo being deployed to hush it all up.

  87. Harry McAye says:

    Kevin – I’ve been taking notes for the last 18 months on newspaper sales figures and the Record is already well below the 200,000 mark. In Sept 2014 it’s average sale was 202,831. In May of this year it had plummeted to 186,978.

  88. Fireproofjim says:

    Capella
    Just remind anyone who tries to blame the SNP for any aspect of the Forth Bridge closure that, when it was decided to build the new bridge, it was derided by the opposition as “Alex Salmond’s vanity project.”
    Also remind them that the SNP government had to find the money from the block grant as Westminster refused to pay a penny towards it, although we have to pay towards London’s Crossrail project and the HST which will probably never reach Scotland. These are apparently “National Infrastructure”projects.
    The building of the new bridge proves how far-sighted and prudent our government is.

  89. Cuilean says:

    Deafening silence from Record as to the identities of the two MPS being investigated for fraud in their expenses for last year.

    It’s not any of the new SNP MPs as relates to last year in last Parliament.

    Pretty sure if it was in relation to two (or three) SNP MPs expenses, there would have been an establishment civil service leak some months ago, a la civil service induced ‘frenchgate’ leak.

  90. Luigi says:

    Capella says:

    4 December, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Have they found an SNPbad angle on the Forth Bridge closure yet?

    Stress of SNP referendum has damaged Forth Road Bridge, according to independent expert.

  91. manandboy says:

    O/T With Syria declaring UK sorties into Syrian airspace illegal, and with Russian anti-aircraft missile defences in place inside Syria in support of the Assad regime by invitation, it cannot be beyond the realms of possibility that Cameron’s Tornadoes and Typhoons will only be flying in the airspace of Tory Government propaganda, which leaves him little room to manoeuvre.

    We know how little we can trust the Daily record. I just wonder how Dave Cameron’s trust levels are these days. Not that he cares.
    David Cameron – the UK’s Premier Liar.

  92. schrodingers cat says:

    Forth Bridge closure,someone on twitter says,

    what currency are the fifers going to use?

  93. handclapping says:

    OT
    Love Alex Johnstone’s ‘complete lack of forethought by @scotgov’. This was a Conservative bridge designed to last for 120 years! Just another in the long list of total project failures by Conservative Governments.

    How did they ever get their totally undeserved reputation for ‘competence’ in Government?

  94. Angra Mainyu says:

    I’ve been saying for weeks we should tackle the Daily Record and it’s continuing lies.

    I even explained how you do it — you boycott their advertisers and push it all over social media, explain who, how, and why.

    I’d be willing to talk to people in other pro-Indy groups too and make it a real goal, a concerted, unrelenting effort. Shut the scumbags down.

    I don’t know what the point is in this movement and all the social media stuff we do, if we put up with being kicked around like this.

  95. Robert Peffers says:

    @john king says: 4 December, 2015 at 12:12 pm:

    “Has it reached the stage where people don’t even bother to raise a complaint with IPSO?”

    Well, John, I may be wrong but my reading of the situation an increasing number of indy supporters have realised that the Establishment, in all its disguisers, is doing itself by its dirty tricks than the Indy movement could achieve by attempting to emulate the same type of dirty tricks.

    I’ll put that another way – why should the YES movement bother to make itself as bad as the Establishment? All the Establishment’s dirty tricks seem to be doing for them is losing the Unionists the support of the people of Scotland.

    For all the dirty tricks carried out by unionists since the referendum the trend has been in favour of the SNNP and independence.

    Don’t know about anyone else but I’m not hearing nearly so many ordinary folks saying things like, “Politicians are all the same – a bunch of liars”.

    There does now seem to be a perception among Scots that the Indy Movement is honest and has Scotland’s best interests at heart.

  96. Luigi says:

    Forth Road Bridge closed until New Year (BBC).:(
    That’s the latest – expect more bad news methinks.

    Just as well Salmond had the foresight to order his “Vanity project” Queensferry Crossing (although it won’t open until Dec 2016).

  97. Cuilean says:

    SNP notion of a second Forth road bridge not such a bad idea after all, eh, yooners?

  98. David McDowell says:

    Count me in for the crowdfunder.

  99. Cuilean says:

    McGarry has clear grounds to sue.

    Firstly for the false info.

    Secondly the DR is obliged to retract a false statement immediately this is made known to it, which they have failed to do.

    THirdly, the DR has failed to apologise.

  100. Famou15 says:

    Shhhhhhhhhhh

    No one should be allowed to askTavish Scott (libdem) why the Forth Crossing was not completed last year.

    We all know “shit happens” but why does it have to always happen to anything Tavish Scott(libdem) has had anything to do with?

  101. ArtyHetty says:

    Regards the Forth Road Bridge closure.

    Two things, thank goodness they found the fault! Does not bare thinking about otherwise.

    The other, er hello Slab, Labour and the contories, there was pretty much no investment in Scotland’s infrastructure on your watch, just PPI keeping councils indebted to private companies for fckg ever!

    The SNP, while in government for a miniscule amount of time in comparison, have managed to look forward and actually start to build some decent infrastructure in Scotland.

    Just as well the SNP have had the foresight and intelligence to invest in a new Forth Road bridge otherwise, well, who knows what if Slab had been in charge, again hardly bares thinking about.

  102. McBoxheid says:

    heedtracker says:
    4 December, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    Why are they targeting Scottish women MP’s

    Fuckwits like Torquil like to pick on those they perceive as the weaker targets. As a typical Toryboy member of the defecazzi they believe that English political majorities and Warmonster thinking is the norm in our northern region of UKOK. They are victorian in their thinking, as they perceive women as being weaker, easier prey, which suits their outdated, uncalled for and unwanted bitter and twisted way of thinking and distorting anything they write.

    Funnily enough, their lies are directly proportional to their salesfigures. The worse they become, the less they sell.

  103. john king says:

    “Ooh! Oor Alex is on HIGNFY tonight – that should be interesting.”

    Dammit, that’s another vow broken. 🙁

  104. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says:4 December, 2015 at 12:37 pm:

    ” … In the unionist camp it is expected that no matter how bad you have behaved, expenses or whatever, you are expected to continue with your unionist party membership up to and including the point you go to prison!”

    Actually, Lesley-Anne, it is much worse than that. They are permitted to continue as MPs if the prison time is less than one year.

    They can be found guilty of any crime and continue to hold their seat and party membership as long as their time in prison is less than one year.

  105. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just for a wee bit of light relief here.

    https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/672779630953242624

    I’m thinking he FAILED his S******h bridge recognition exam today then. 😀

  106. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bill Fraser says:4 December, 2015 at 12:37 pm

    ” … The Record should stick to football and leave subjects they seem to be incapable of reporting seriously.”

    Yes, Bill, but they even tell lies about the football too.

  107. schrodingers cat says:

    some of the best tweets about the frb

    We should set up camps for essential Fifers in Holyrood park.

    I will take in a Fifer.

    #FifersWelcome

    And thus, stranded Fifers are forced to rekindle their traditional sea-reaving lifestyle. To the longships.

    The Forth Road bridge wasn’t built with 21st century obesity in mind

    I’ve not seen a coherent plan from any of these folk who are advocating bombing Fife, but it couldn’t hurt surely.

    Look, are we absolutely CERTAIN that it wasn’t ISIS that sabotaged the Forth Bridge?

    closure unacceptable. Why didn’t SNP use Chinese steel? Sturgeon must answer.

    But what currency will Fife use?

    The SNP are not giving us the answers. What’s their Bridge B?

  108. Lesley-Anne says:

    Right enough … you are right Robert I forgot about that. Thanks for that wee bit of info. 😉

  109. schrodingers cat says:

    ps
    http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria
    92,000 signatures

  110. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just so as we are all clear this is a photo on the Forth Road Bridge twitter page of the problem.

    https://twitter.com/forthroadbridge/status/672756631449559040/photo/1

  111. pipinghot says:

    Angra Mainyu

    Boycott the advertisers on facebook etc. Great Idea.

  112. Ruby says:

    ‘Scots cannot be relied upon in an international crisis.

    I’ve read The Times article in which Kenny Farquharson states

    ‘Scots cannot be relied upon in an international crisis.

    I did not pay to read The Times I read it FOC thanks to EDC Library. It used to be you would have to go to the library to read the papers but now you can do it online which is great.

    After reading his article I would say Kenny Farquharson deserves the title of NO 1 UKOK Better Together Hate Preacher/Instigator of Racial hatred’

    Kenny Farquharson another one of these binationals who really needs a nationality change. He’s an Englishman trapped in a Scotsman’s body.

    The man like ‘sensibledave’ certainly knows how to flamebait! I wonder if he’ll get a bonus from The Times.

  113. David McDowell says:

    Whether the crowdfunder should be legal action or not, I’m not sure.

    A lot of intelligent people here point out the corrupt Unionist courts are likely to soak up all your money and shaft you.

    Maybe the £150,000+ it would cost to bring a defamation suit would be better spent conducting a guerilla war specifically against the Daily Record?

    For example:

    Website “boycottdailyrecord.scot” debunking the worst propaganda (we can do propaganda too!)

    Facebook and twitter flooded with “Boycott the Daily Record” memes

    Targeted comments on DR social media pages

    Targeted comments on DR forums telling people not to believe the lies

    Petitions and emails sent to DR advertisers asking them not to use DR

    “Boycott the Daily Record” merchandise: T-shirts, bumper stickers, posters on lampposts and billboards outside newsagents, leaflets left in supermarkets, cards placed inside newspapers, badges for kids, etc.

    We could point to further falls in DR circulation as evidence of success.

    We are always being accused of being “centrally-controlled cybernats” anyway.

    So maybe we should give them a real centrally-controlled campaign and they’ll soon be wishing they’d never mentioned it!

  114. heedtracker says:

    Never mind Fife! Brits in Scotland History repeats itself,
    Sterling Green council blocks new Judy Murray centre for Green reasons. Greens hate tennis in their Scotland region?

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/scotland/threat-to-judy-murray-s-plans-for-stirlingshire-sports-academy-1.108282

    Green councillor for Dunblane and Bridge of Allan Mark Ruskell also indicated that he will oppose pretty much anything, just like this Green, who hates Trump or Golf or both

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/28278/Trump-councillor-sacked

    Truskell/Ford, separated at birth or is there something much more fundamental going on, regards Scottish development? Greens of Aberdeen blocked the new by-pass for a decade at least too.

    Spooky.

  115. Lesley-Anne says:

    Don’t panic folks the emergency bridge repair team are on the case!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVY9fmdWwAAZoCt.jpg:large

    Oh and it appears my fellow Fifers are non plussed about the whole bridge closed thingy anyway!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVYoZ60WwAAqxKm.jpg:large

  116. Iain says:

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I now hardly ever watch b.u.m. television. If I am in the unfortunate position of being forced to watch the news or any other current affairs programme, it just makes me angry and automatically take the complete opposite view that they want me to have. I used to (naively) believe that the BBC was impartial and unbiased and swallowed the whole invasion of Iraq propaganda.I am delighted to have my eyes opened and see the whole British state for the rotten, corrupt edifice it is. I for one will not be put back in my box and eat my cereal. The BBC and the whole b.u.m. Will be forever disbelieved and distrusted.

  117. r esquierdo says:

    Al-Stuart at 12.53. On this site I have already asked for a crowd fund to take on the Record. Mr Murray Foote the editor broke the 2013 referendum act by allowing his paper to publish the Vow. Lets take down the editor

  118. ClanDonald says:

    Ha, just showed this to a colleague and she says “no doubt the missing money story is a load of lies too.”

    Keep crying wolf, Torcuil, you and the Daily Record are doing the SNP a big favour with these blatantly anti-SNP lies by casting doubt on every other claim you make. No one’s listening any more.

  119. Macart says:

    @Ruby

    Mr Farquharson is click baiting for the Times. The chap has had his arse roundly skelped on twitter already and such an article will have done the Tomes no favours.

    Whatever his motives, be it some twisted, cringe induced racism or merely mercenary commentary, its no worth the candle and I wouldn’t waste valuable time chasing it up. The meeja is what it is and doesn’t it just burn their beans knowing we’ll never contribute to their coffers ever again?

    Puir wee sowels. 🙂

  120. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Angra Mainyu

    “I even explained how you do it — you boycott their advertisers and push it all over social media, explain who, how, and why.”

    This tactic has been brought up on and off many times here on WoS. The problem is that there are companies who advertise their businesses in these rags that support Scottish indy. Do we threaten to boycott them too? Or do we just boycott the anti-indy companies? How do we tell which companies are pro-indy and which ones are anti?

  121. Clootie says:

    Torcuil and the truth are strangers to each other.

  122. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just like many others I have have just *ahem* visited the bacon lover’s Facebook page and *cough* reported it to Facebook. 😀

    Just in case anyone else feels equally inclined here is the link. 😀

    https://www.facebook.com/DavidCameronOfficial/?fref=ts

  123. Angra Mainyu says:

    Proud Cybernat,

    If they support Indy then they will understand.

    Any company that advertises in the daily record is fair game. They can take their advertising money elsewhere — it’s not like businesses are short of places to advertise these days.

    And systematically you post a list of advertisers on a website and you push and push until the list goes down. While that’s going on you contact the companies and Inform them of the campaign. Most small and medium sized companies will jump immediately.

    Newspapers depend on advertising, as I’m sure you all know. They dont function without it. They are really selling eyeballs to advertisers, the content in terms of news has no real value in itself (about 50 pence which barely covers the costs of printing and distribution).

    Anyway, it would work. As a business there’s no way you want to lose through your advertising.

  124. Iain More says:

    When are the SNP going to start taking legal actions against what are now just libels and slanders? It is now going beyond just smearing. But the spiritual son of Brian Scot Nat Hater Wilson is and has always been a stranger to the truth.

    The Daily Record and most of the Brit Nat Press and Media are now just churning out lies and doing so with impunity.

  125. ClanDonald says:

    Regards taking the Daily Record to court for breaking the referendum act, it would be worth it just to hear them deny it by admitting out loud that the vow didn’t actually promise anything new or of any significance whatsoever.

  126. Iain More says:

    @heedtracker

    On the subject of NIMBYs, it was drawn to my attention by a mate who works at the MacAllan distillery that they have a NIMBY objecting to the distillery expansion plans.

    It seems I missed the Daily Trump (P&J)big front page spread on that one.

    I view it as just an extension of Project Scorched Earth which translated means give the Jocks SFA if it means they get work out of it.

  127. Helena Brown says:

    schrodingers cat, Someone did say on twitter that Christmas may have to be cancelled as Amazon have their distribution centre on this (Fife) side, and Leslie Ann, maybe you better phone up the engineers and suggest they use the good old duck tape, it’s worked before, see Mythbusters.
    Thank heavens that the SNP were far seeing to order a new Bridge even thought they were scoffed at.

  128. Robert Peffers says:

    @HandandShrimp says: 4 December, 2015 at 1:31 pm:

    ” .. On more optimistic news the by-election looks like Corbyn is secure for the months ahead.”

    Whoa! There! Corbyn is far from secure, even by the minute never mind the months. You may be misreading the situation, HandandShrimp, (or perhaps I am).

    I see it like this – The Labour Party was well and truly infiltrated by the Tory party with Tony Blair and his NuLabour. If you have any doubts just note how many people refer to them now as, “The Red Tories”.

    That means the present schism is not quite what many people perceive it to be. It is not a case of the elected to government part of the party being split between left & right for those elected ones are NOT the ones who chose Corbyn as Party leader.

    The elected members in the Commons, Lords, EU and local councils are the infiltrators and it is they that presently hold the power by having appointed the paid for party officials.

    Corbyn, was elected by the grass-roots membership of the party and he is backed by only a very few elected to government members. This is why the MPs/MEPs/Lords and Councillor feel they have the hard neck to openly oppose Corbyn.

    Indeed they desperately must do so for the ordinary members have one really massive power, in fact the only one thing going for them, in a battle against the present party hierarchy. That massive power is the power to deselect sitting members for all coming candidacies.

    So what we have is the grass roots membership attempting to drag the Labour party back to more traditional Labour values while the Red Tory bully boys try to drag it even more rightwards and those Red Tories hold most of the dealt out face cards.

    Which, of course, is why Corbyn couldn’t just slap a three line whip on the parliamentary party for the bomb Syria vote.

    However, if Corbyn doesn’t face them up the Red Tory members will get him out. If Corbyn had been in possession of today’s by-election results he just might have faced the Red Tory members up and forced them into line or resign decisions.

    It’s a real Mexican Stand off and could go either way.

  129. Lesley-Anne says:

    Due to the high level of hilarity on these pages these days some folks may have missed the news about Neil Findlay today. He missed the 9:13 train from Glasgow to Edinburgh this morning and took to twitter to make inquiries.

    https://twitter.com/Munchbunch87/status/672812932682670080/photo/1

  130. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Angra Mainyu

    “If they support Indy then they will understand.”

    Possibly. But the Daily Redcoat has an audience which many Scottish businesses specifically wish to target. A campaign like this might have the effect of adversely affecting those Scottish businesses that actually support indy, potentially threatening people’s jobs (scorched earth policy). You can imagine the Daily Redcoat headlines then – they’d have a field day.

    A move like this would need to be very thoroughly researched and carefully evaluated before even attempting it.

  131. Rock says:

    How many lawyers are there in “Lawyers for Yes”?

    What are they doing when the SNP is being smeared and lied about endlessly?

    Isn’t it time for The Record to be sued?

    Of course there is no chance of the rotten to the core Scottish justice system ever ruling against the establishment.

    The vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

  132. K1 says:

    O/T sort of…a little clarity perhaps, regarding who the perpetrators are in the Syrian conflict.

    I know many on here are aware of this information, but for those who may not be. This article from 2013 discusses Roland Dumas’s (former French Foreign Affairs Minister) comments from an interview he had on French tv. Where he states that: “top British officials” confessed that they were preparing a war on Syria and asked “If I wanted to participate”. And that the war on Syria was planned two years before the ‘Arab Spring’:

    “I am going to tell you something. I was in England two years before the violence in Syria on other business. I met with top British officials, who confessed to me, that they were preparing something in Syria”.

    “This was in Britain not in America. Britain was organizing an invasion of rebels into Syria. They even asked me, although I was no longer Minister of Foreign Affairs, if I would like to participate. Naturally, I refused, I said I am French, that does not interest me”

    “This operation goes way back. It was prepared, preconceived and planned… in the region it is important to know that this Syrian regime has a very anti-Israeli stance”.

    “Consequently, everything that moves in the region…- and I have this from a former Israeli Prime Minister who told me ´we will try to get on with our neighbors but those who don´t agree with us will be destroyed. It is a type of politics, a view of history, why not after all. But one should know about it”.

    From the same article the author says this about Dumas:

    ‘Although Dumas was careful to avoid implicating France or himself directly in the planning stages of the subversion, his statement reveals that British officials have been vetting and contacting leading French policy makers for their potential involvement in planning the illegal war on Syria, at least two years before the onset of the first “incidents” which sparked mass protests. International analysts as well as Syrian sources have since 2011 maintained, that the eruption of violence was systematically created from abroad.’

    http://nsnbc.me/2013/06/16/dumas-top-british-officials-confessed-to-syria-war-plans-two-years-before-arab-spring/

    (thanks to christine, who pointed this out on The Eurasia Principle Wing’s article, for highlighting Dumas’s comments, and also that his revelations were not believed at the time)

  133. Legerwood says:

    Heedtracker
    Re the proposed tennis development at Park of Keir.

    I think you should check this out in more detail before using it to berate the Greens.

    Opposition to development on this Green belt site has been going on for almost 30 years or more. And more, many more than just the Greens have objected over the years and now. There have been well over 1000 objections to these proposals as well as several petitions against it.

    The tennis facility is just 3 miles from the Scottish National Tennis centre, which is open to the public and has a coaching programme for children from the age of 3 upwards. But if you listen to Ms Murray you would get the impression that she and she alone is doing anything to promote tennis in Scotland.

    Tennis Scotland has rolled out equipment and instruction to thousands of schools across Scotland and has just announced plans to open 3 indoor tennis centres at various locations in Scotland.

    It is the Council officials who have said they will not recommend approval of the plans. The councillors on the planning panel have yet to pontificate on the matter. But Sir Alex Ferguson has now waded in with his support which is all very well but he won’t have to live with it.

  134. call me dave says:

    Alex Rowley deputy leader of that party… err!…anyway, on BBC doing the planning for the SG regarding the Bridge. Except he’s repeating the previous SG spokesperson’s stuff and is getting nowhere new but it’s good to talk.

    The presenter Ken Mcdonald? helpfully suggests that there are questions that should be asked about the maintenance schedule on the bridge as this ‘crack’ didn’t happen overnight! Cue Rowley
    Good old Auntie 🙁

    Rowley didn’t take the bait and said these are questions for later.

  135. manandboy says:

    Following the Jigsaw Principle, which states that all the pieces in the box fit together to form a complete picture exactly like the one on the box, there are two pieces from the Syria jigsaw which don’t seem to fit.
    Piece A : Cameron’s plan is to bomb Daesh in Syria, in support of the French.
    Piece B : Barack Obama’s plan is to support Daesh in Syria in their efforts to overthrow Assad, which is what the US wants.

    I just can’t get those two to fit together.

  136. Macart says:

    RE: the SG or SNP as a party taking the meeja to court.

    Pretty unlikely I’d say. Basically in the first instance the bill would fall on the taxpayer and in the second instance the bill would fall on the membership. Marry this to the fact that given the frequency of misleading stories, smears and outright lies, they would quite literally never be out of court.

    Newspapers live for libel cases and take out enormous insurance to cover their collective butts. In short they’d have a field day. They know that no party and no individual has deep enough pockets to fight long drawn out libel cases through the courts. Look at the costs in the Carmichael case to give you a heads up to the sort of figures involved and of course in an adversarial system you always stand a chance of losing the case (whether you’re in the right or not).

    Don’t know about anyone else, but I’d rather my government spent their dosh helping those in their care, not indulging themselves in constant legal vindication. IMO the SG are right to take most of this bollox on the chin and get the odd dig in when they can. They’re on the receiving end of this shit 24/7. Does anyone really seriously think they wouldn’t give bits of their anatomy for some righteous payback for all they are put through? Of course they would, they’re only human.

    You truly want to punish the media and let them know how you feel? You take away their readerships, viewers and listeners. Don’t give them the time of day or oxygen of publicity.

    Starve them.

  137. mik johnstone says:

    Is it not about time the snp took this washed up rag to court over the amount of outright lies they publish?

  138. annie says:

    Torcuil and the Record getting their revenge for Maggie Curran.

  139. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 4 December, 2015 at 2:02 pm:

    ” … As I recall the Treaty of Union made no mention of superseding the Declaration of Arbroath therefore the DoA is still relevant to the people of Scotland and who can rule over them and command them.”

    The truth, Lesley-Anne, is that the Declaration of Arbroath has some evidence going much further back in history. However, it set the very corner stone of Scottish law and is as relevant today as it ever was.

    In the first place it was recognised by the then international authority. The Head of all Christendom, GOD and his earthly representative, The Pope in Rome. (no sectarianism back then).

    It not only declared Scotland a sovereign Kingdom but declared her people as sovereign by law. They thus have the right to dismiss the appointed monarchy and appoint another in their place. Being sovereign the same principle applies to the Scottish people as applies under English law. That is the sovereign owns everything including the sovereign’s subjects – in this case the sovereign’s onnly subjects are the monarchy or those who deputise for the monarchy.

    The Declaration was what prevented James I & VI from forming a United Kingdom when he inherited the Crown of England. He had not the sovereignty to do so. This was why, of course, that the English needed to force a Treaty of Union in 1706/7. It was also the reason for Scottish Law to remain independent – they simply could not get the express legal permission from the sovereign people who had already made a Claim of Right.

    That people’s sovereignty is as relevant today as it always was. For example the only part of the UK where it is a criminal offence for a member of the public to clamp a vehicle parked on private owned land and demand payment to release it to the owner of the vehicle is Scotland. The criminal charge is, “Demanding money with Menace”.

    Our sovereignty is as legal today as it was for Robert Bruce for it was OUR sovereignty and express sovereign wish that allowed Bruce to legally become King of Scots but not of Scotland.

  140. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thanks for that Robert. 😉

    I have a sneaky suspicion we have discussed this before as well. 😀

  141. Craig P says:

    Daily Record? Torquil Crichton? Facts??

  142. heedtracker says:

    Legerwood says:
    4 December, 2015 at 4:51 pm
    Heedtracker
    Re the proposed tennis development at Park of Keir.

    Scotland is vastly underdeveloped with vast open spaces. Anywhere else would be jump at the chance but in Scotland, unionists and unionists who paint themselves Green, block so much.

    Its actually insane the way unionists take power and either shut down developments like this one in their Scotland region, or even worse give go aheads to inexplicably shite stuff, like mile after mile of noddy box housing estates, all for the vast profit of a few very rich unionists.

    Its that mad unionists territoriality in Scotland, the “this my Scotland and nothing changes while I am in charge” that is slowly dying out.

    Another mad example of unionists saying NO is wind energy and as we know, the tory party have shut it all down. A big result for tory unionists in their Scotland region, with one tory MP.

    You may have your own:-(

  143. Graham MacLure says:

    Robert Peffers.

    As an old and onetime member of SOGAT used to asking my FOC,
    (Father of Chapel) a very wise Bob Knowles, advice may I ask another old Bob for some enlightenment?
    Is there any reason why the SNP cannot include independence negotiations in their next manifesto?

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 4 December, 2015 at 3:03 pm:

    “Just so as we are all clear this is a photo on the Forth Road Bridge twitter page of the problem.

    https://twitter.com/forthroadbridge/status/672756631449559040/photo/1

    I read the twitter thingy and the guy had the wrong bridge. I’d no sooner said to myself, “I expect some numptie will now refer to vertigo and along came the numptie.

    So wrong bridge and wrong term for a fear of heights. Vertigo is a spinning sensation and fear of heights is, “acrophobia”. Yon Alfred Hitchcock has a lot to answer for. To be fair Hitch never said vertigo was fear of heights.

    However, for some strange reason the public belief is that Vertigo is fear of heights. It is actually often caused by inner ear damage that induces a spinning sensation. If a person is prone to feel they are spinning they very well may then also suffer the real fear of heights, acrophobia.

  145. Capella says:

    @ K1
    Excellent post. What Dumas describes must be illegal under UN rules as well as common decency. What can be done?

  146. Lesley-Anne says:

    I have come across this and thought now THAT is a house to die for … figuratively speaking! 😉

    http://www.greenmagichomes.com/main.php

    I understand that the S.G. has now met its commitment for house building. However, as always there are always shouts of we need more houses. For me this is an ideal house of the future. It is green, sorry about the unintended pun there, and for a three bedroomed house it would take 6 days, yup you read that right SIX DAYS to complete!

    For me the S.G. should seriously look at building these houses. They are energy efficient which will go towards cutting Scotland’s green house gasses thingy as well.

    For me there could well be an additional advantage to building these houses. The current nearest distributor is in Italy. Our government should be getting these houses built with a distribution network set up in Scotland.

    We would end up in a win/win situation.

    New, energy efficient, warm houses at, I suspect, a fraction of the price of current brick built homes and jobs created in the manufacture, building and distribution network.

  147. @Robert Peffers

    `The Head of all Christendom, GOD and his earthly representative, The Pope in Rome. (no sectarianism back then).`

    `all Christendom`except for the Eastern Orthodox Church,

    (no sectarianism back then).The Fourth Catholic Crusade sacked Constantinople the Capital of Eastern Orthodoxy,West and East Christians did not get along.

  148. Bob Mack says:

    @Lesley Anne,

    Any applicatons from Hobbits yet?

  149. Dr Jim says:

    Re companies who support Independence or not:

    I don’t think they have to support Independence but they certainly shouldn’t go out of their way to undermine it which is what some of them do

    There are good companies like ALDI who sell Scottish produce for example and bad companies like Morrisons who specifically avoid selling Scottish produce, Salmon is a case in point, they actively promote and advertise the fact that they sell Norwegian Salmon and English Brook Trout as opposed to Scottish Salmon and Trout, I don’t know how anybody else feels about that but it offends the shit out of me

    There’s a whole list of products they do this with which I won’t bore everybody to death about but if you prefer to support our own Agriculture and Fisheries Industry you might think about walking past Morrisons although it might be the only one in some folks area so they’re kinda stuck

    Just one more: Costa Coffee, they refuse to use Scottish Milk so have it sent up from down south, now what’s all that about
    I even asked in my local Costa (which I don’t use)and they admitted it, not the staff’s fault but Jeeez

    So that was my advert for ALDI you can’t get everything Scottish but you can get most things, and that’ll do for me

  150. bugsbunny says:

    Jackie Bailey says that if Labour were in power, no cracks would appear on the Forth Road Bridge, the New Hospital would be paved with Gold, the Scottish Parliament would be a Powerhouse with all the powers needed to help Scotland compete in the World, we would also have won the most Gold Medals in the Commonwealth, as well as the Golf, World Cup and would have struck oil at $100,000 a barrel. No one would be fat, smoke or drink to excess, all debts would be wiped and everyone would be given a degree and job of their choice and whatever wage they wanted.

    Sure I’m typing shite, but that is what come of the mouths of Kezia and Jackie on a daily basis. And what more the Daily Record prints it on a daily basis. Let’s face it, the kind of people who read and believe the Record is not someone you would not want to share a drink with, let alone anything else. Brainwashed clueless bastards.

    Stephen.

  151. Every click to/on The Daily Record’s website generates income for them via online ad rate fees. So next time your curiosity peaks, go & make a cup of tea instead. Otherwise, you are directly funding their pervasive propaganda.

    The same goes for The Herald; the paper edited by Gardham, an editor who appears to experience a liquid explosion in his pants every time he crafts an “SNP accused of …” story.

    Is that defamation? Or do I need to make some shit up?

  152. proudscot says:

    I remember reading with disbelief an account of how, during the American War of Independence many Scottish Highlanders who had been victims of the Clearances, actually fought as “loyalists” on the side of the Crown against their fellow American colonists. Maybe an early example of the Stockholm Syndrome – where victims come to love and defend their oppressors?

    I’m afraid Torcuil Crichton exhibits the same forelock-tugging subservience to his revered UK colonial-style oppressors, under their appointed Governor-General Wee Sneery Mundell. Another in the Alan Demented Cochrane mold. (I don’t include the Herald’s Mangled Garbage, as he’s English so can’t help himself.)

  153. Ken500 says:

    There is a new code of conduct for the Press as a result of Leveson (coming from 10 Downing Street – the crooks Den). The chairman of the new coven is Paul Dacre the spin Doctor au contaire.

    No lies, no maky up, no clickbait, no misleading headlines, no headlines out of sync with the article. No telling lies about the SNP, Alex Salmond or Nicola. No bullying, ying misogynistic cowardly attacks on SNP female representative which would influence females not to enter Parliament.

    The lying, nasty greedy Press don’t know when to keep quiet. No one believes a word they say.

  154. Molly says:

    The other week in my local Spar , you were getting a free Times paper with your messages. Needless to say when I declined the offer, it was thrown onto a big heap of them behind the counter.

    Even Kenny Farquarsons relentlessclick bait isn’t enticing folk to buy it. Little fish, big pond – or you could say , irrelevant.

  155. caledonia says:

    Lets pick one advertiser in the daily redcoat and mail/phone/email
    Telling them we are no longer going to support them as they are advertising in a paper that constantly down scotland..

  156. Lesley-Anne says:

    Bob Mack says:
    4 December, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    @Lesley Anne,

    Any applicatons from Hobbits yet?

    I dunno about applications from Hobbits Bob but I want to get my name on the list! 😀

  157. Bill McLean says:

    Don’t buy the Record or the Herald – indeed boycott the lot except the National and SH (and I am becoming a bit wary of both!) Don’t comment, write letters or engage with them in any way. The only way to destroy their lies and deceit is to boycott them. We spend hours and hours discussing these papers, especially the two mentioned without coming to any conclusion. The truth is that collectively we can do nothing – so we must act as individuals boycott them completely. It’s lots of fun getting into a rammy with unionists in the BUM but you won’t change any of them. Boycott the BUM – Totally!

  158. Ken500 says:

    The Highlanders were forced to fight for the Crown. They were prisoners. They were enslaved. They had all their lands and possessions taken from them and were forced to fight or be killed.

  159. Terry says:

    The establishment are out to get the snp and corbyn supporters. Why? Because they are socialist in nature. But let’s make a vow – Indy is bigger than any politician. And if any of the stuff printed is true the fight will carry on regardless

    It’s the people not the politicians who are leading this. And wings of course. .

  160. mike cassidy says:

    We Fifers are natural 1000-yard-stare survivalists.

    My cut-of-from-the-rest-of-the-world supplies are ready.

    http://a1ratanfishcourt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Salmon-Fish-Head.jpg

  161. Big Jock says:

    Nae surprise two posh greenie English people on Reporting Scotland. Trying to stop the local Murray family building their sports facility

    Scotland is a place to collect butterflies not for ordinary Scots to live and work in.

  162. bugsbunny says:

    Proudscot@6.18,

    Believe it or not, Flora MacDonald, in her mid fifties, whilst in the then Colony of North Carolina in early 1776 exhorts the Loyalist Forces towards victory against the American Rebels. In her case her husband Captain Allan MacDonald served in the 84th Regiment of Foot, Royal Highland Emigrants. They arrived before the Revolution in 1774 and returned to Scotland in 1779 before the War was over.

    Stephen.

  163. TJenny says:

    Bill McLean – ‘The Bum’s rush’?
    😉

  164. Valerie says:

    proudscot@6.18

    If you like watching historical drama based on fact, Amazon have an excellent series called Turn.

    It’s based on the struggle for American independence, how the UK moved in how they financed the campaign and specifically the Culpeper spy ring, set up by Washington.

    The UK had a Scot in charge of the guerrilla type tactics, doing the dirty work, whilst the red coat officers strutted about worrying about how to get fancy food and wine.

    There is a Scot playing a leading role, and in an interview he said it was fascinating history, that he had never been taught at school.

  165. O/T. Just in case anybody was intending to attend the S.N.P, N.E.C Conference in Perth tomorrow, it’s been cancelled.

  166. Grouse Beater says:

    Your weekend essay:

    The Gospel According to the Unionites.

    http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2Ha

  167. Valerie says:

    Matthew MacFadyen plays Robert Rogers, the Scottish Ranger,that the English regard as a dog, but necessary for his mercenary skills.

    Ironically MCFadyen played Bruce in Braveheart.

  168. caz-m says:

    Not got long to wait until the Daily Record Xmas annual comes out.

    It’s got all your favourite stories from 2015 in it.

    Makes a great stocking filler.

  169. Hamish100 says:

    O/t the ? Terrorists in the US of A visited Saudia Arabia. Surely we must send our drones to defeat the home of terrorists from Saudia Arabia to eh.”…..

  170. Cadogan Enright says:

    Lord may she sue the hell out of them at the end of this, I hope she is keeping a ‘record’

    Am watching the news to see how they manage to link the stress crack in the bolt on the 50 year old bridge to the SNP

    Also, I acciddently got subscribed to the Scotsmans electronic newsletter when logging a complaint with them last week – it has opened by eyes

    Apparently SCOTTISH people SUCK at pretty much everything.

    They discriminate against the poor in education, unlike England. Their leaders make cruel accusations against the dead when their grandchildren are still grieving for them, they have the worse police force in the world, and to top it all off, they can’t eat strong curry like the righteous and knoble folk Daan Sarth.

    Seems to be that the only solution is to finish you all off and populate your county with real people.

  171. K1 says:

    I’m not sure what can be done Capella, this information has been in the public domain for at least 2 years, given the article’s date in 2013.

    As the author states at the end of his article:

    ‘Whether Dumas will ever have to testify before an international war crimes tribunal under oath and risk of perjury, to tell a judge who exactly the “top British officials” were, who attempted to recruit Dumas, who allegedly rejected the offer of “taking part” is doubtful as long as the International Criminal Court, ICC at The Hague remains the sole option for the prosecution of war crimes.

    It really comes down to the entire narrative of the ‘West’s’ foreign policy and outlook on the geopolitical dynamics of the ME.

    I would be interested to ask Craig Murray if he has any insight into these statements from Dumas or for that matter anyone else’s thoughts on the matter.

    The fact that a former French Foreign Affairs Minister has described and accused ‘top British officials’ of the UK government of being involved in such blatant criminal machinations against another Sovereign State and that this has never been mentioned in the corpmedia of the UK, is quite frankly ‘startling’.

    Given the stramash that ensued after the lying Carmichael and ‘memo gate’ rumouring that was published by the Telegraph as ‘fact’ and picked up by all major media outlets in the UK, gives us a real insight into what counts for journalism in the UK.

    When you have so called reporters badgering the French consulate, or breathlessly pursuing ‘Sturgeon’ as James Cook did, over utter pish. And yet here we have an actual former French Minister who has held high office stating categorically that this took place, and not one of those journalists from the corpmedia has ever mentioned these ‘allegations’?

    It becomes clearer and clearer that we are all being taken for complete idiots.

    And those that are still ‘persuaded’ that ‘our government’ have ‘our best interests at heart’ and are ‘protecting’ us from the big bad ‘bogey men’ are nothing more than infantile fodder hanging on to the apron strings of mother GB. Hoping against hope that the ‘fairytale’ of Brittish and American ‘exceptionalism’ is ‘true’, are in fact the biggest dupes of all…because they have ‘swallowed it whole’, and are in large part the reason these bastards get away with it in the first place.

    Time people woke up to the ‘nasty’ realities of promoting criminals into positions where they thrive.

    (sorry about mini rant at the end)

  172. Andy-B says:

    Never buy the Daily Record, I’ve convincrd several folk not buy it, and I’ll keep on doing it.

  173. jdman says:

    @Angry Mannie
    Is there a reason you’re such an arse?
    could it be your receding hairline?

  174. Legerwood says:

    Big Jock @ 6.49.

    What a pity you did not actually listen to what the people actually said rather than dismiss them on their appearance and your own political prejudice.

    Development on this site stretches back 30 years or more. In that time Dunblane has almost doubled in size with way more than 1000 houses being built in that time? Just last week there was a public consultation about plans for at least another 100 houses.

    All of this makes this Green belt space and its continuation as green space free of development even more important.

    Both Dunblane and Bridge of Allan have tennis facilities and active membership of the respective facilities which are also open to non-members.

    Dunblane has an 18 hole golf course and an active youth programme. Bridge of Allan has a nine hole course. Both clubs are struggling for membership.

    The University of Stirling, 3 miles from Park of Keir is home to the Scottish National Tennis Centre, a complex of indoor and outdoor courts, again open to the public.

    There is also a 9 hole golf course on campus and a 100 bedroom hotel as well as the student residences that are rented out for holiday self-catering accommodation in the summer.

    Dunblane has football pitches -including 2 grass pitches which do need work but they are in a park that is currently being upgraded and they would be part of that process. There are all weather pitches at the High School although not full size.

    There are areas of Scotland that do not have anything like the level of sports facilities that exist within this small area. Why not build it in one of those areas?

  175. Sinky says:

    Bill Mclean @ 6.34 is wrong.
    What all of us should do is write well researched letters to the Unionist press rebutting their lies and promoting Indy / SNP as the majority of their readers dont visit pro indy web sites.
    Its obvioud that the anti snp mainly Labour activists have
    Upped their letter writing campaign since the general election as they dont have the troops on the ground.
    So all wingers should look at newspaper letter pages im supermarkets libraries or on buses and reply.
    Perhaps Rev Stu could distribute a list of newspaper letters email addresses

  176. thomaspotter2014 says:

    I’m sure I noticed an attack on Alex Salmond on twitter recently that alleged he had caused a Chief Engineer to be sacked or laid off from working at Forth Road Bridge.

    Not sure where it came from how and ever-

    No doubt this’ll be spun by BUM that said engineer would have resolved the flaw.

    Result= Great SNP BAD headline!

  177. Big Jock says:

    Your points are fair Legerwood. But my point was that these incomer greeny nimby types always seem to be at the helm of protest groups.

    It often comes across as seemingly carrying their baggage to Scotland. They often want to maintain their lifestyles rather than blend in.

  178. Joemcg says:

    Notice Talk shite-on has a wee Gaelic piece underneath his English text in his column in that rag. Gies me the boak. Like he’s trying too hard to appear like one of those pwoud scots.

  179. Robert Peffers says:

    @Graham MacLure says: 4 December, 2015 at 5:37 pm:

    ” … Is there any reason why the SNP cannot include independence negotiations in their next manifesto?”

    None at all, but people have the wrong idea of what Nicola, or indeed the rest of the SG members, are indicating when they say that it is not up to them but to the people who will decide.

    The SNP, as a political party, is very different from all other UK political parties. It is NOT run from the top down but from the bottom up.

    By that I mean it is totally democratic. It works like this. Every member has exactly the same number of votes that number is one. Furthermore, they all have exactly the same right to use that vote. This is done via the branches, through the Constituency Associations and finally by the National Conference.

    So any member can propose a motion for conference at a branch. If the motion is seconded then it is put before the branch. It must be considered but can have amendments, that also must be seconded and it can also have opposing proposals that are also subject to the same rules. Finally an amended or opposed matter is democratically voted upon and goes forward through the system.

    In the end all such arrive at National conference where the delegates from the branches will vote upon the matters, including any amended or opposed motions, and the whole party, not just the elected to government members, decide what is or what is not SNP policy.

    This was most spectacularly demonstrated when the party changed its policy upon NATO membership before the glare of the TV lights and cameras which showed the then leader, Alex Salmond sitting there with his one vote just like every other delegate at conference.

    So indeed it is not up to Nicola Sturgeon whether or not any particular matter becomes party policy or goes into the SNP manifesto.

    BTW: the funding of the party comes from the membership too. By their membership fees and their donations – no one gets special favours from donations, though., (nor do they get nominated for knighthoods because of them.

    It is indeed up to the people, and not the leaders, what goes into the manifesto. If you are a card carrying member get along to a branch and have your say.

  180. starlaw says:

    proudscot. Sad but true, many Highland settlers fought for the Crown in the American war of independence. They knew first hand exactly how the crown would treat them should they lose. Fear was the factor that put them on the side of the Crown not Loyalty

  181. Thepnr says:

    Jeremy Corbyn is ‘incompetent’ says shadow Defence Minister

    Screams the headline in the Independent.

    Labour’s shadow Defence Minister says Jeremy Corbyn’s “incompetent” leadership means the party is failing to scrutinise the Conservative Government over military intervention in Syria.

    Screams Kevan Jones (Durham North) who voted FOR Air Strikes in Syria.

    https://archive.is/YCTH1

  182. alexicon says:

    @mike cassidy.

    Feed the Fifers Let Them Know It’s Christmas Time.

    Awright neebs.

  183. john king says:

    Thepnr
    are you watching this clown on twitter? @me

  184. Sinky says:

    Legerwood
    My relations live in the area and the land in question is private farm land with no regular public access. I agree there are other sporting facikities but it does seem a classic case of NIMBY opposition from Greenies and after their uk armed forces day farce last year I wouldn’t trust Stirling Councillors to put Scottish interests first.
    .

  185. jdman says:

    alexicon
    “Feed the Fifers Let Them Know It’s Christmas Time.”

    I’ve been listening for the helicopters
    I’ve sent Irene to the roof to wave to them
    http://tinyurl.com/gpdfl92

  186. Famous15 says:

    Re Murray’s plans on Green Belt. It would have made sense to preserve Greem Belt when factories were spewing out pollutants but a modern urban development for sports or houses is more Green than farming.Look on Google Earth to see the green in suburbs.

    Around Edinburgh for example farms grow crops which upset many and fertilizers and herbicides and bugkillers pollute the air. Worst of all in West Edinburgh at Turnhouse we have a composting of garden waste facility (and kitchen waste) which pollutes the air for miles around. Their licence says smells must not leave the site but you can smell it as far away as Cramond and Muirhouse. Shhhh libdems fought for it!

  187. Tam Jardine says:

    Took a wee glance at everyone’s favourite onionist Dunc.

    Having proclaimed on numerous occasions the folly of the unnecessary and wasteful vanity project of the new Forth bridge, Duncan is engaged in a desperate semantic rearguard action to avoid having to actually admit that the Scottish Government were right on pushing ahead with a replacement bridge.

    It is quite simply stunning to witness the desperation of folk like Duncan. I think he genuinely believes he is right on every issue. Had the Scottish government failed to address (as previous labour administrations had) the ongoing structural problems with the bridge by building a new one, can you imagine folk like Duncan saying “aye- fair play to the Scottish Government- I never thought a new bridge was necessary either.”!

    Everything is SNP bad – even when a story such as this is impossible to frame in terms of SNP bad. Even when the Scottish Government are proven irrevocably and comprehensively to be correct and all of their doubters wrong, its still SNP bad.

    I want to put Freud, Jung and Pavlov in a room to diagnose, then pass on to Kellogg to treat the condition.

  188. john king says:

    Tam
    “I want to put Freud, Jung and Pavlov in a room to diagnose, then pass on to Kellogg to treat the condition.”

    So, just shut up and eat your cereal Duncan?

  189. Thepnr says:

    @john king

    Not guilty John, picked up the story on Newsnow.

    I couldn’t believe that someone who fully supports the Tories on air strikes has the gall to the criticise the leader of his party along with throwing in an “incompetent”, just for good measure.

    How many hypocrites are in the shadow cabinet? A fair few it would seem judging by Benn, the shadow foreign secretary and now Jones the defence secretary FFS.

    OK I’ll hold my hands up, I sympathise with Corbyn.

    With friends like those who needs enemies. It’s no longer funny and all the more reason to get right out of this neo-liberalism absolute mess. These people have sold their souls and at the same time, sold those that elected them down the river.

    Benn and Jones, Labour shadow cabinet members? That is why they are now my political enemy, none of them can be trusted to work for their electorates. Only their masters, bet he cheered more loudly than the other Labour Tractors after Benns speech!

  190. Tam Jardine says:

    john king

    Exactly.

  191. john king says:

    naaaaw go to my twitter feed,
    Having a hoedown with angry mannie

  192. Thepnr says:

    Wings is not just about politics, regarding the Forth Bridge and it’s shutdown last night. For the engineers among you or just the generally interested. Anyone wanting to know the real history of the deterioration and more importantly the reasons why this occurred should read this.

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/report/j8512a-03.htm

    It’s a very dry but FACTUAL article of the history of the bridge and the major repairs that have been necessary over the years. I well remember the 1997 work for reasons that I need not share here.

    This may give a flavour:

    Both the Forth Road Bridge and the Severn Bridge were designed to the loading specified in British Standard 153, which was derived from a train of up to five 22 ton and eight 10 ton vehicles followed by lighter vehicles.

    During the early life of the bridge, the amount of goods moved by road in the UK almost doubled and the number of goods vehicles with a gross weight over 28 tons rose from an insignificant number to 90,000.

    The following vehicle weights have subsequently been introduced:

    in 1983, 38 tonne articulated vehicles five axle (with a drive axle maximum weight of 10.5 tonnes);

    in January 1999, the allowable weight limit was increased to 40 tonnes on five axles (with the axle weight limit increased to 11.5 tonnes);

    since 1994, six axle (max drive axle weight of 10.5 tonnes) 44 tonne vehicles have been allowed on a very limited number of UK roads; and in February 2001, six axle 44 tonne vehicles were allowed on all UK roads (with a max drive axle weight of 10.5 tonnes).

    In addition to the growth in traffic loading set out above, the growth in traffic using the bridge has increased at a relatively steady rate of 2-3 per cent growth each year. At present the bridge carries over 24 million vehicles per annum or on average over 66,000 vehicles per day.

  193. Macart says:

    Jeez Thepnr!

    If I didn’t read it myself I’d never have believed it possible. The Labour train wreck continues with one angling for the job and another kicking the stool away from under the man.

    Any other leader would be looking at handing out pink slips to his cabinet for that kind of naked treachery and I don’t think there’s any other word to describe it.

    Betrayed by your own shadow cabinet, your own party.

    Just wow.

  194. Canwehaveourdemocracyback says:

    Re Newpapers and falling circulation
    I notice the article linked to in “The Grocer” doesn’t specifically mention the National and SH. Does anyone have circulation figures for these?
    I subscribe online to the National. Its not perfect but its important that it survives.

    It would be good if some of those companies who advertise in the Record began to realise that it may not make good business sense to be associated with newspapers that are so out of step with how around half of Scots view the world. Money talks.

    Perhaps that is something that we can all do – actively boycott the MSM, Even better, as another person suggested, write to their advertisers explaining our position.

    I am still boycotting those businesses that decided not to remain neutral , but instead actively supported the No side in the Referendum. I’m certainly not alone in doing that. They will get no more business from me. That;s how we as individuals can redress the balance

  195. bugsbunny says:

    Watching Alex Salmond on BBC just now on Have I Got Nrews For You.

    Stephen.

  196. sinky says:

    As well as not buying unionist propaganda sheets we need a concerted campaign against those supermarkets that sell produce in union jack packaging which as well as being environmental unfriendly is ukok subliminal advertising

  197. SaorAlba says:

    Why would any intelligent human being buy or read the Daily R****d?
    This is simply a vehicle for propaganda. The Daily Haw Haw!

  198. Macart says:

    You can see the change of tack now on the new crossing. It’ll move from vanity project to ‘WHY DIDN’T THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT START BUILDING EARLIER?’

    Shear neglect of duty… etc

    Oh and SNP bad. (sigh)

  199. Dr Jim says:

    According to new figures just out (BBC Text) Scots are the fittest in the Yookay followed %20 behind by the English even lower are the Irish but the unfittest of the lot of us is the poor old almost dead Welsh a whole %40 behind us Superbeings up here in Jockistan

    So voting SNP is good for your health says the BBC (they didnae mean tae say it but same thing eh?)

    Just makes the invasion figures about even now (start sharpenin)
    I’ll awa and get ma kilt oan

  200. Sinky says:

    Alex Salmond a star on HIGNFY

  201. Dr Jim says:

    @Sinky

    I hate that Yoonion Jack Packaging, cannot look at it, I start getting louder in any shop as soon as I see it

    British Beef, don’t want it, want Scottish Fkn Beef or pies or sausages or anything but Yoonion Jack Fkn Food

    Mrs Jim gets embarrassed

  202. Big Jock says:

    Dr Jim it’s like a red rag to a bull the Union J on packaging. My missus knows not to buy it. To be fair she doesn’t like it either and we always try and buy local. Especially when it comes to water while out of the house.

    Do you know that in Wh SMITH you can buy French,English and Welsh water but not Scottish. It’s the central buying policy of large shops. Crazy importing water to Scotland. Not only that it’s downright insulting that we are protecting British jobs, when it’s really English jobs.

  203. Breastplate says:

    On HIGNFY, they’ve obviously edited out the applause for Alex Salmond after talking about the threadbare case for bombing Syria.
    Arseholes!

  204. ArtyHetty says:

    Re; Thepnr@8.52pm

    Yes road traffic has become unsustainable. I remember Snatcher, ie M.thatcher destroying rail freight virtually overnight. I lived near a frieght depo, it had been there for years in Gateshead. It would have transported goods to Scotland no doubt until she destroyed it.

    Then of course she removed funding for the absolutely essential painting of the Forth Rail bridge, so it started rusting and falling down. I was just explaining to my son what the phrase, ‘its just like painting the Forth rail bridge’ meant.

    Then we had Gordy broon who made it cheaper to buy bigger cars. etc. They, ie Slab, and the contories never invested in infrastructure in Scotland. Their road, fuel, privatisation of rail and cheap cars policy has left a huge stupid mess in ukok. It started with Beecham.

    Maybe they really have those jet packs and don’t need to travel by conventional means unlike the rest of the population.

    Just as well SNP looked forward and commissioned the new Forth road bridge.

  205. Free Scotland says:

    Re union-jack packaging, I’ve been told that, when my new driving licence comes through, it’ll arrive complete with a union jack on it. I’m thinking of starting a new business to provide perfectly sized super-strong-adhesive Saltires to cover the disgusting union jacks that make us all feel ill.

  206. caz-m says:

    Macart 9.20pm

    ‘WHY DIDN’T THE SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT START BUILDING EARLIER?”

    The SNP have finished off the M74 extension, started to dual the A9, all the way to Inverness, built the Glasgow super hospital, building the Queensferry Crossing, opened the Edinburgh-Borders railway line.

    All done while under Westminster spending restrictions and the Unionists still can’t stop criticising them.

  207. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi David McDowell.

    You typed,
    ““Boycott the Daily Record” merchandise: T-shirts, bumper stickers, posters on lampposts and billboards outside newsagents, leaflets left in supermarkets, cards placed inside newspapers, badges for kids, etc.”

    Here are a couple of badge designs we came up with, in advance of the rallies in Glasgow, in April this year.

    https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/badge-designs/Labour-Record-Pish-combo.jpg

  208. Legerwood says:

    Sinky @ 8.09

    It is farmland but seems to be owned by developers and rented out. Sheep and cattle regularly graze the fields but it is accessed by walkers on a regular basis because it links into other paths in the area. There is a right iof way over one of the fields and the golf course – 6 holes, junior grade – will straddle it. The presence of cattle in this particular field is a recent thing and can put people off but there are other access points.

    Local groups such as the guides also use the area. There is Site of Special Scientific Area bordering part of the site.

    Nimbyism is not a feature for the vast majority of opposition. Dunblane has had so many houses built around it over the years to be accused of nimbyism now is a bit wide of the mark.

    Originally the developers wanted 100 houses on the site. This has been reduced to 19 high value homes but the business case for the facilities don’t stack up and it is very much seen as a wedge to get more houses.

    The green belt is just as important to people who live in urban areas as it is/was to people who lived next to a factory.

  209. Bill McLean says:

    Sinky – I wrote hundreds of letters to the Scotsman,Scotland on Sunday, Daily Express, Sunday Express, Herald and Dunfermline Press between 2006 and 2012. Many were published yet none of the unionists who regularly attacked me have ever changed their tune and the tone in those papers has become more hardened against Independence and the SNP so clearly, from my point of view and even though I enjoyed writing, I made absolutely no difference. I maintain, and of course it is only my point of view, that we should boycott the BUMs totally.

  210. K1 says:

    I went onto iplayer to watch Alex on HIGNFY, he was great 🙂

    Then I fast forwarded and saw the news was on, I thought I’ll just have a quick watch, the San Bardino murders were being reported, and the BBC reporter and camera crew were allowed into the house of the two people, who are now accused of being ‘terrorists’.

    Fair enough…who knows?

    But, what struck me in this report was that the reporter was going around inside the house, touching the computer and picking up ID cards…etc. Can I ask, is this ‘typical’ at a crime scene?

    Wouldn’t the authorities want an uncontaminated crime scene so that they could take prints et al?

    To allow a newscaster (or anyone not associated with the crimes) to touch evidence and freely wander about in a ‘suspects’ house? Just struck me as highly unusual?

  211. Thepnr says:

    @caz-m

    No sweat. Our day will come, we that supported Yes were right then.

    Still are. Our job now is not to march, but to educate.

  212. Sinky says:

    Legerwood

    There is a cronic shortage of housing in Scotland which has more vacant land than most of Europe.
    Not advocating building on every bit of land but it does seem NIMBY is not helping the Scottish economy to grow

  213. Lenny Hartley says:

    Canwehaveourdemocracyback

    Re Herald n National circulation , they have been deemed by their owners to be “regional” titles and therefore only get audited bi annually rather than monthly as per the “national” titles

    On its birthday the National said it had a daily circulation of 14 k. Re the Sh, think it’s about
    20k but can’t remember exact figure.

  214. sinky says:

    Bill
    I agree that the Unionist die hards or newspaper editors will never change their views but lots of ordinary readers need to have their pre conceptions challanged so I would encourage you to resume your letter writing campaign for the next six months

  215. caz-m says:

    Here’s one for you Thepnr,

    Why do New Labour in England persist with their Red Tory policies, when clearly only a minority of the electorate would vote for them?

    Look at how many voted for a Red Tory to lead the Party. The Red Tory project is dead. It is finished, yet these seemingly intelligent MPs continue to flog this dead horse, why?

    England is splitting into left or right camps. You either want the Tories to govern you OR someone like Corbyn.

    There is no room for the Red Tories anymore. And if I were Corbyn, I would have called their bluff the other day and whipped them to vote against bombing Syria.

  216. heedtracker says:

    The green belt is just as important to people who live in urban areas as it is/was to people who lived next to a factory.

    Only in Scotland! One of the greatest athletes in the world today from Dunblane Scotland, is trying to get a sports center going in his home town and its being blocked!

    The rest of the world jump at the chance. Only in the Scotland region, run by nutters.

  217. Macart says:

    @caz-m

    Yep to all of that and not to mention they’ve balanced the books every single time.

    Not once, not at any time, have they received any credit for any of it. The stock response from the other parties and their pet media is to paint the darkest picture possible of any SNP achievement.

    They call it politics, or holding the government to account. Let’s call it what it is despicable, demeaning and insulting bullshit. We know why they do what they do. They had it all in their hands including the trust of the public for decades and turned Scotland into an industry free zone.

    They gathered votes and a career with exes, their constituents became an ever impoverished afterthought. It was as close to legalised gangsterism as you could get. Control of parliamentary seats, town and regional councils, they had the lot and pished our money and our trust up against a wall whilst lining their own pockets and flagging the first train they could to ermine and the bright lights.

    Now they’re out in the cold looking in and they don’t like it one bit. They’ve been called to account by the people they betrayed and they don’t like that either. They know there is worse yet to come… irrelevance and finally extinction as parties of any worth, consigned to the trash heap they’ve sent so many others less deserving of the fate than themselves.

    They’ve earned it caz, that and a whole lot more for what they’ve done.

  218. Thepnr says:

    @caz-m

    I totally agree with all that you said!

    There is no room for Red Tories.

    Corbyn should have whipped them into shape.

    What’s the problem? Ignorance. The masses get their information from the BBC and the scum newspapers. I’ll say again, Ignorance.

    They need educating, that’s our job, else we fail.

  219. caz-m says:

    Macart 10.54pm

    Brilliant piece of writing, summing up exactly what the Unionists have done for Scotland.

    Well worth reading.

  220. Quinie frae Angus says:

    Macart 10.54pm

    What a belter of a post! Excellent summary, and every point hits home.

    It’s infuriating that the BritNats never acknowledge this no matter how many times you point it out to them.

    But there are bound to be some regretful and wistful No voters out there (IndyRef No, I mean) who must be thinking, and musing…..

    I would love to see a group of some sort started up for the “I Voted No But Now Wish I’d Voted Yes” crowd. Haven’t seen one on Facebook yet.

  221. dakk says:

    ‘They need educating,that’s our job else we fail’

    It’s a sair fecht, and my gratitude for the efforts of all the researchers and indefatigable posters on here is inestimable.

  222. Robert Peffers says:

    @Sinky says:4 December, 2015 at 10:22 pm:

    ” … Not advocating building on every bit of land but it does seem NIMBY is not helping the Scottish economy to grow”

    In actual fact, Sinky, this subject is just one more example of successful Establishment propaganda.

    There are many Scots who imagine that the barren wasteland that is the modern Scottish Highlands and Southern Uplands is the natural environment of Scotland. It isn’t.

    The truth is nothing could be further from that, “truth”. There is not a single square foot of Scotland’s present day landscape that is not man made. Scotland’s natural habitat was the Great Caledonian Forrest and there is virtually none of it left now.

    What is not generally realised is that lots of it was cut down comparatively recently to build the wooden ships that historically allowed Britannia to rule the waves. With another great swath of it to provide charcoal for iron smelting for the massive ironclads of Their Imperial Majesties.

    The Highlands supported a far more numerous population until the clearances and these were not confined to the Highlands.

    The Clearances were Scotland wide. They were forced displacements of agricultural workers during the 18th and 19th centuries.

    Significant numbers of Scots were removed from the land to make way for sheep. It resulted from the enclosures of common grazing lands and a change from arable and mixed farming to large scale sheep raising. An agricultural revolution to benefit the hereditary aristocratic landowners.

    The Highland Clearances are made notorious because of the brutality but the use of, “The Vagrancy Acts”, in the Central and Southern areas were no less effective and cruel.

    The effect of, “The Clearances”, and so called large-scale “voluntary” emigrations devastated the cultural landscape and changed the natural landscape of Scotland in a way that did not happen in other areas of Britain.

    The Potato Famine also affected large areas of Scotland. It is sad, but true, that there are far more descendants of Scots in such diaspora destinations as North America and Australasia than there is in Scotland.

    In the Highlands and Southern Uplands the sheep finished the job of suppressing the regrowth of trees aided by the great unnatural increase in deer numbers. Both sheep and deer eat young tree growth and that is what made the Highlands into the barren wasteland of today.

    The Clearances were just within the last couple of hundred years. If you think about it almost within all of our immediate family historic memories. Yet we have Scots who want to preserve this artificial Highland Scenery as if it were Scotland’s natural state.

  223. Graham MacLure says:

    Robert Peffer at 19.45

    Thank you Robert for taking the time to reply to a broken down deaf old sparky. ( I did wear hearing muffs and latterly moulded ear plugs but that made no difference due to bone conduction)

    From what you have said if a grassroots member puts forward a motion it is democratically scrutinised in the decision making.
    No problems there.
    The problem lies in whether it would be wise to add this to the manifesto or not. The first step in finding out then would be to put forward a motion to find out if there is still time?

  224. caz-m says:

    Good find there Nana 11.41pm

    This whole Syria/Iraq war stinks. Follow the money, as they say.

  225. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Oh dang!

    Who would’ve thunk it?

  226. Capella says:

    @ Robert Peffers
    Also, vast areas of moorland ard burned annually to remove vegetation and encourage green shoots to feed grouse which are shot in August and rushed down to London restaurants.
    This turns the land into a podzol leached of nutrients.

    Now maybe readers of this blog regularly eat grouse but I suspect very few. Yet vast amounts of the land area of Scotland are managed to produce one food source that very few people eat.

    So I agree that it is an unnatural landscape.

  227. Nana says:

    @Caz-m & Macart

    Westminster is a slurry pit for sure.

    This fellow Zahawi was the mp who charged the taxpayers to heat his stables while demanding benefits are cut.

    I really worry where these bloody crooks are leading the country with the help of the crooks in the media.

  228. Lesley-Anne says:

    K1 says:
    4 December, 2015 at 10:18 pm

    I went onto iplayer to watch Alex on HIGNFY, he was great 🙂

    Then I fast forwarded and saw the news was on, I thought I’ll just have a quick watch, the San Bardino murders were being reported, and the BBC reporter and camera crew were allowed into the house of the two people, who are now accused of being ‘terrorists’.

    Fair enough…who knows?

    But, what struck me in this report was that the reporter was going around inside the house, touching the computer and picking up ID cards…etc. Can I ask, is this ‘typical’ at a crime scene?

    Wouldn’t the authorities want an uncontaminated crime scene so that they could take prints et al?

    To allow a newscaster (or anyone not associated with the crimes) to touch evidence and freely wander about in a ‘suspects’ house? Just struck me as highly unusual?

    I watched a news bulletin about the house earlier in the night K1, I think it was on Al Jazerra. The reporter was wandering around inside as well and I questioned, like you, if they really should be doing that. Later on they showed the latest news briefing from the San Bernadino police and the F.B.I.

    Apparently the police and F.B.I. were finished with the house and had handed it back to the owner/landlord. The F.B.I. were asked about the media gaining access and they informed the gathered press that as they had handed the house back to the landlord it was no longer up to them what happened in the house. They also pointed out that the lists of items removed from the house that had been left in the house were left because they are legally required to do so.

  229. Legerwood says:

    Heedtracker.

    The proposed sports centre is not in Dunblane but would be located between the communities of Dunblane and Bridge of Allan. Accessing the site by public transport is virtually impossible. You need a car if you want to work there or use the sports facilities.

    The University has very good public transport links and the space to accommodate the facilities as an extension to the existing tennis centre thus it would be accessible to young people from all backgrounds not just those who have cars.

    Robert Peffers at 10.39

    I thought the great forest of Caledonia was pretty well gone before the Union. Was it not the case that James IV (I think) had to import wood from the continent when he wanted to build himself a navy? Johnson on his tour of the Highlands in the 18th century made frequent references to the absence of trees and said something along the lines of: The sight of a tree in Scotland would cause as much excitement as the sight of a horse in Venice’ That was before the rush to build ships during the war with the French and Napoleon.

    There were some landowners who still had some oak trees on their estate and sold them to the RN to build ships. The Duke of Buccleuch was one such.

    The RN liked Scots Pine for their ships but the Baltic trade in timber was their main source of timber. It was a trade that resulted in a huge balance of payments deficit did it not?

  230. where is the tennis centre 3mls. from park of keir

  231. Lesley-Anne says:

    Looking at this allegation over Nadhim Zahawi that Nana has uncovered I wonder if this will be used by Recep Tayyip Erdo?an, president of Turkey, in an effort to try and hang on to power.

    Come to think about it Recep Tayyip Erdo?an will probably cling on any way. I watched a video, on my *ahem* favourite news channel, where everyone who was interviewed seemed to be of the same opinion … Erdo?an will cling on to power no matter what!

  232. Robert Peffers says:

    @Graham MacLure says: 4 December, 2015 at 11:45 pm:

    “Thank you Robert for taking the time to reply to a broken down deaf old sparky. ( I did wear hearing muffs and latterly moulded ear plugs but that made no difference due to bone conduction)

    Aye! Graham, that is one broken down old sparkie to another but I go back to the days we didn’t even get any hearing protection whatsoever.

    Not only that but they didn’t have an RN barracks, except for the RN trainee Artificers. So when a ship was under refit there was a skeleton crew that they employed on the ship we were refitting. They used these Jolly Jacks to use windy hammers on the hull to chip paint and rust off and to paint the hull with anti-fouling paint.

    You can just imagine the volume of sound of the normal refit work with an added RN crew on the outer hull with windy hammers.

    I’m a Vertigo sufferer with added industrial deafness and an added exposure to a Ships gunfire while working in a gun base while the idiot skippering the ship illegally fired the gun, (He was Prince Charles).

    “The problem lies in whether it would be wise to add this to the manifesto or not. The first step in finding out then would be to put forward a motion to find out if there is still time?”

    Oh! There’s time all right. The point is that under Scots law the people are sovereign and not either the crown or the Westminster Parliament. The principle of Scottish legal Jurisdiction has been proven in both the Scottish and international law. The Lockerbie Bomber trial was attempted to be hijacked by both the UK and USA legal systems but had to be held under Scots Jurisdiction by international law.

    Not only that but several UK laws have had to be changed to accommodate the independent Scottish Legal system. When push eventually comes to shove The people of Scotland are still legally sovereign and have never given that legal sovereignty away. Westminster just pointedly ignores the truth and has always assumed they have sovereignty.

    The last Scottish Claim Of Right has at least three very significant signatories on the list, (not including mine), These are Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling and the late Donald Dewar.

    Aye! That’s right, these three numpties signed the Scottish Claim of Right then campaigned for Scotland to remain under UK rule.

  233. James Barr Gardner says:

    No more rant!

    These scum who attack Scots an Scotland are beneath our contempt!

    What do Scots need to do to stop this smear, lies, fraud, shit campaign !

    Don’t buy unionist newspapers if you can cancel your tv license!

    Vote SNP X 2 In 2016 and Vote SNP in 2017.

    SIMPLE SHAFT THE BARSTEWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  234. Legerwood says:

    Sinky

    The houses being proposed for this site will make little or no impression on the housing situation.

    They propose 19 very high-end homes. The figure 19 is significant because more than that and the developers would have to include affordable homes – possibly not on that site but somewhere else in the area.

    The people who buy the houses on PoK will be expected to purchase a £50,000 debenture to help pay for the tennis facilities. The money would be in effect an interest free loan repayable if they sell up.

    At the present time there is a development proposal for 100 houses to be built in Dunblane and at least another 400 just waiting in the wings. But Dunblane is seen as a pressured housing hot-spot whose infrastructure -roads, schools etc – cannot cope with more houses.

    Over the years there have been more than enough houses built in Dunblane to make charges of Nimbyism look silly.

    The arguments/objections to the PoK are detailed and comprehensive and most definitely knee-jerk nimbyism.

  235. Lesley-Anne says:

    O.K. folks.

    Remember the other week there was a Russian Su 24 that flew over Turkey for 17 seconds?

    As one or two of you may recall the Turks took exception to this slight incursion and shot the Su 24 down.

    I therefore feel obliged to ask the question.

    What the ***k is Turkey doing invading Iraq?

    The Turks claim to be *ahem* training Iraqi groups and yet the Iragi government has not made any request to Turkey for such action to be carried out.

    http://pmo.iq/pme/press2015en/5-12-20151en.htm

  236. Angra Mainyu says:

    K1: “thanks to christine, who pointed this out on The Eurasia Principle”

    Actually someone pointed this out earlier but, since he isn’t a member of the dead poets society, I guess it was overlooked.

  237. Cadogan@enright.ie says:

    It’s taken almost all day but BBC Radio 4 have finally figured an angle on the cracked bolt on the 50 year old bridge. Very poor performance , it’s taken hours, maybe the propaganda room was having an “early weekend”

    Anyway the headline is “Scoltish Government defends its decision to close the ……” And so on.

    I knew if we waited long enough they would find an angle, and yes, second bridge only available at the end of next year – as predicted by other posters above. Clearly the Scottish government not building spare bridges quick enough.

    ????

  238. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Westminster and profiteering, goes together like bacon and eggs really.

    Grim Nana and bloody frustrating.

  239. dakk says:

    Lesley Anne

    ‘What the F…k is Turkey doing invading Iraq’

    Perhaps crushing the Iraqi Kurds to compensate for their loss of influence in Kurdish Syria due to Russia’s interventions.

  240. Lenny Hartley says:

    Regarding earlier posts regarding declaration of Arbroath. The concept of the people being sovereign is not limited to Scotland, in Ireland and I think other Celtic countries, the people could replace their King if they so wished, Some Bog bodies found in Ireland in recent years Are thought to be Kings that were ceremonially sacrificed. Presumably they were killed to stop them from trying to regain the throne.

    Although pagans believe that the Goddess held sovereignty , the archaeological evidence suggests in fact the the people held sovereignty.

  241. Angra Mainyu says:

    Lesley-Anne, I’m not certain but I think the areas of northern and southern Iraq were defined as no fly zones by the UN back in the 90s after the first gulf war. By “no fly” they meant anyone but Iraq and the idea was Britain and America would provide protection to the Kurds in the North and Shia elements in the South who Saddam had been attacking.

    Not sure if those mandates expired but it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that Turkey was using a mandate designed to protect Kurds as loophole and means of attacking Kurds. They’ve been systematically massacring Kurds for decades.

  242. Lesley-Anne says:

    First off I know it is late.

    Second off I know it is NOT April First.

    However, I think, like me, folks on here will find this report as news to us all. 😀

    https://archive.is/4ELLe

  243. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oops!

    I forgot to add to my last post.

    As WE now have an air force … apparently …, or at least according to the Herald, then the Trident missiles and nuke subs currently sited at Faslane are OURS as well …obviously! Therefore WE can get shot of these W.M.D.’s any time we like.

    I think a week next Thursday sounds good to me. 😀

  244. dakk says:

    Nana

    I’m sure we’ll see Zahawi up on aiding and abetting charges,just like we saw BAE Systems up on bribery charges.

    Mibbees naw.

  245. Lesley-Anne says:

    @dakk & @Angra Mainyu

    That idea of attacking the Kurds would not surprise me in the slightest and they are just trying to pull the wool over the Iraqi eyes with their “we’re training Iraqi groups” nonsense.

    Just in case anyone thinks this is just a one off just remember that Turkey has invaded Greek airspace 2,244 times in 2014!

    https://www.rt.com/news/323429-greece-turkey-airspace-violations/

  246. K1 says:

    LA, sneaky fucking bastards wi that headline in the herald, I love the first comment btl though…giving the exact downing street address of Cameron…I love our Scottish humour.

    Angra, I only saw christine’s comment at the end of that thread…what is your point exactly?

    Nana, I’ve archived that link to the Tory fucker who’s buying oil from Daesh/ISIL. Just in case it disappears:

    https://archive.is/Eys0N

  247. Lesley-Anne says:

    I agree K1.

    There is nothing to beat guid old Scottish humour in my view.

    I was just talking about oor humour with my partner earlier tonight in reference to the story about the closure of the Forth Road Bridge. Twitter was amazing today with amazing humour about the bridge, Fife and Neil Findlay. You would never have seen anything similar from folks dan suff had the same things happened dan suff! 😀

  248. Grouse Beater says:

    And There Cometh a Man Named Dissent: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2Ha

  249. Lesley-Anne says:

    In a further Turkey related matter.

    It appears that there is at least ONE member of NATO who is not too keen to get too close to Turkey. Germany is refusing to share intelligence gathered from flights by their intelligence gathering aircraft with Turkey on the off chance Turkey uses the intelligence to attack the Kurds!

    https://archive.is/IyRMQ

  250. McBoxheid says:

    I see STV have removed my comment about the bridge closure.
    It was the first comment at the time I posted. I said that it was Alex Salmond’s fault because he didn’t press his “vanity project” strongly enough. SNP baaad. Plus more, but I forget my last sentence.

  251. Angra Mainyu says:

    I’m merely having some fun, k1.
    Merely having some fun.

    I’m at that stage, they call middle age,
    living life at the end of a gun.

    I truly don’t have a poetic bone in my body, do I… This is why I got into Pol Pot.

    Anyway, K1, the quote and link you posted, with the ex French foreign minister explaining how the Brits were scheming in Syria in 2011, I posted it on here about 2 weeks ago.

    It’s interesting though, very incriminating. Hard to imagine a more credible source. I was surprised nobody on here picked up on it when I posted, but maybe they did.

  252. McBoxheid says:

    To be fair to STV, they didn’t remove my post. They updated the story and it is now a different article. Sorry for falsely accusing STV of removing it. I should have checked on older articles first!

  253. McBoxheid says:

    Lesley-Anne says:
    5 December, 2015 at 1:23 am

    In a further Turkey related matter.

    It appears that there is at least ONE member of NATO who is not too keen to get too close to Turkey. Germany is refusing to share intelligence gathered from flights by their intelligence gathering aircraft with Turkey on the off chance Turkey uses the intelligence to attack the Kurds!

    https://archive.is/IyRMQ

    OT, but a breakdown on how the average citizen of Germany thinks, in my opinion, from talking to people in my local area.

    Following your link, I have to say that the main topic of conversation over here (Germany) is the refugee crisis, what it will cost the taxpayer and what it will do to a health system that is still badly affected by the massive influx of Russian Volgadeutsche, over 2 million, that emptied the coffers and caused many cutbacks to what was covered by the Krankenkassen..the public health insurance companies.

    A bit like the NHS in that a set percentice is removed as a paye tax, like NHS contributions, is is paid to your health insurance company of choice and not to an NHS like structure.

    Private patients still get what they need and these days, “Kassen Patienten” …public health insured patients are getting less and less because the insureres had to pay for 2 million+ more patients that never contributed to the scheme and had, amongst other things, all their teeth fixed to the German standard, which is extremely high btw.

    The same goes for social security benefit etc etc. The added strain of 800,000 Syrian refugees this year on an already overloaded sytem that is being forced onto local authorities without federal support is crippling.

    The German taxpayer once again foots the bill and clueless ex-politicians say it hasn’t made any difference as far as they can see and that Germany should welcome them. What they don’t say is that they live in exclusive residential areas where there is no chance that a refugee will be housed.

    Container settlements are springing up on every available plot of land and every sports hall is full to bursting. Crime has increased rapidly, because refugees aren’t allowed to work, prepare their own meals, it is all cooked for them and paid for by the local communities that house them.

    People here agree that something needs to be done for the refugees, but see it as unfair that other countries won’t take their share. Countries that started the crisis in the first place.

    A country that is still recovering from bailing out the banks, bailing out half of bankrupt Southern Europe, I know that their financial foreign policy helped create the mess, but why does the cost of political cock up always rests with the taxpayer and the local authorities?

    People here do not protest, they moan quietly to themselves instead. They haven’t had an enlightenment like Scotland. They think I’m a bit crazy and look at me with disbelief when I mention what the Unionists are doing to Scotland and think that we won’t achieve anything as an indy movement because as they see it, nothing ever changes.

    The Unions are in general much weaker over here too. Shop-stewardship is seen as the first rung on the poltical ladder for many and that makes the Unions weaker than they should be. Shop-stewards are protected while in office and often work more for the management than the workforce.

    The voting system is PR with a second list vote for the party, a bit like the Scottish Paliamentary voting system, but guarantees that the 2 party system stays as it has been. The CDU (similar to Tories) have stayed in power with 37% of the vote, a bit like UK, albeit in a coalition with SPD (Labour, but more like the CDU every year).

    The main parties are so similar in policy here, that it makes no difference what people vote for and the voting reflects the dispare and hoplessness that most people feel.

    People still vote foe what thei grandparents voted for. I help friend’s children with English when they need it and I asked them what party they will vote for. They all say that the will vote the way their parent’s vote. Even the 16 and 17 year olds. There is no interest in politics, no discussion about change.

    This is federalism. The cenral government makes the decisions and the local communities have to pay for them. The Bundesländer have their own governments, but like the Scottish government they don’t get to make the big decisions, but they do have far more leeway in how they manage those policies than Scotland does.

  254. john king says:

    If we don’t fill those vast empty spaces north of Inverness Japan will think we don’t want it,
    One day we’ll wake up and we’ll see Japanese bullet trains going between the 1million (Japanese) people conurbations of Wick and Thurso.
    don’t say you weren’t warned!

  255. @McBoxheid

    I heard on the news earlier that Germany is sending 6 Tornados to assist in bombing Syria back to thr dark ages.

  256. Ken500 says:

    Do People in Stirling, Dunblane, Fife no know what a tourist draw the Murray Tennis Centre would be. People would come from all over the world to visit the area, either play or just visit. The draw of the Murray’s is a world wide phenomenon. It would put visitor’s number through the roof and could result in more championship’s being staged in Scotland, The Murray’s have already brought the Davis Cup matches to Glasgow with great success. The access to the centre would be improved. Hotels would be built. It would bring Milliions of visitor’s, championships! businesses to the area. Students to study at the Uni etc from all over the world. It could create thousands of jobs. Much needed in Stirling, Fife etc.

    The Murray’s have brought £Millions/Billions to Scotland/UK. Some folk do not appreciate the jamboree, could the screaming and drums not be turned down, but people love the Tennis. Billions worldwide. TV fees and screening. Show placing Scotland. Well done to the Murray’s and the rest. Amazing sports people. Tennis was started in Scotland. Mary Queen of Scots. Falkland Palace. Court.

  257. Ken500 says:

    The Greens and th Unionists? (no fundng) Didn’t want a new Forth Bridge. Long overdue. Unionists made sure there were plenty of Bridges in London with Scotland’s revenues.

    Merkel just will become more unpopular. Like Hollande, Cameron, Obama, Netanyahu, Putin and Enogen. Their support will wane further. There War of terror will end. The majority are against it.

  258. Ken500 says:

    Germany is in surplus and relies on migrant workers. It is the US/UK and France who have caused the Middke East migrant crisis with there policy of bombing the Middle East to bits for Oil (for the last 100 years) Meekel should have a word with them instead of joining in against International Law. Westminster is causing the migration crisis but refusing to take refugees. The US/UK and France have caused the crisis but refuse to take the refugees. 4 Million refugees. 500Million people in Europe.

    Germany makes money of the Middle East with major construction developments, technology, car sales etc. There are Germans all over the Middle East leading luxury life styles. German companies making vast profits.

    Why doesn’t the West just buy Oil, It would be cheaper. . Putins would have brokered. talk with Syria. The West refused. The only solution is political. Talks. At Christmas time the West is still blowing the Middle East to bits. They are useless incompetents. Brown/Blair should be put in jail. The majority at Westminster are war criminals.

  259. heedtracker says:

    Legerwood says:
    5 December, 2015 at 12:18 am
    Heedtracker.

    The proposed sports centre is not in Dunblane

    Only Scotland. I don’t want an international sports center sponsored by one of the world’s greatest sports stars because there’s not a very good road to it, is probably going to block it all.

    But lets build thousands of acres of pocky wee noddy box housing estates everywhere instead.

    Its a mad mad mad Scotland, run by unionists.

  260. BIl McLean says:

    Sinky – again I have to disagree with you. Communicating with the newspapers I mentioned only helps them with revenue. I shouldn’t have mentioned the Dunfermline Press – it is a fairly reasonable paper just some of it’s letter writers who are rabid. I challenge the pre-conceptions of ordinary folk by pointing them to on-line sites such as this where most people get their news anyway. Boycotting the BUMs is the only way to bring down rubbish like the Record and possibly even the Herald. There may be a simple mistake that we nationalist continue to make – in that because generally we behave decently we expect the same fairness from others ie hope that the BUMs will report fairly – it’s not going to happen. The union must be saved by any and all means. Don’t contribute to their efforts.
    My view again. I will never say to someone they are “wrong” when it comes to opinion.

  261. heedtracker says:

    As usual nothing about their Scotland region in English papers, except usual rancid The Graun smear on Salmond. Salmond the troll lives under a bridge.

    Or, UKOK war mongers do not like to be criticised, shock.

    Fair enough but this creep trying to wrap UKIP xenophobia round Salmond’s a new low, even for these reprobates.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/04/cameron-salmond-livingstone-trolling

    And then there are the angry men who inspire the others. Hilary Benn (dull, reliable statesman) gives a good speech on Syria, so Alex Salmond (angry, tricky, may turn out to live under a bridge) responds on LBC Radio: “I’ll tell you this: his father [Tony Benn], whose speech I heard in the Iraq debate all these years ago – and I was sitting in virtually the same place – would be birling [spinning] in his grave hearing a speech in favour of a Tory prime minister wanting to take the country to war.”

    There are MPs who equate disagreement with treachery, who mistake crassness for wit: trolls
    Except for the fact that Tony Benn would certainly have disagreed with his son, Salmond’s comments make no sense: when father and son differed, they always did so respectfully.

    You sense that Salmond’s anger stems from Hilary Benn’s support for not just the war but also the enemy – “a Tory prime minister” – as if disagreement over policy and personal betrayal are the same. He’s trolling.

  262. Nana says:

    O/T links

    https://theintercept.com/2015/12/04/defense-contractors-cite-benefits-of-escalating-conflicts-in-the-middle-east/

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opinion/dont-make-san-bernardino-a-victory-for-isis.html?

    http://yournewswire.com/israel-caught-receiving-stolen-oil-from-isis-militants

    A schoolboy trying to save his youth club was hauled from class after his plan to protest outside David Cameron’s constituency office was spotted – by anti-terror police.

    https://archive.is/pUIys

    EXCLUSIVE-“Worse than Militant”- The Gang of Four caught in Tory Bullying Allegations, with Freemasonry links

    https://www.byline.com/project/30/article/645

  263. McBoxheid says:

    cynicalHighlander says:
    5 December, 2015 at 6:50 am

    @McBoxheid

    I heard on the news earlier that Germany is sending 6 Tornados to assist in bombing Syria back to thr dark ages
    .
    From RTE I can’t post links from here, every time I post with links they never appear.
    The German parliament has approved plans for the country to take on a direct role in the battle against the so-called Islamic State group in Syria, answering France’s appeal for help.

    Parliament voted for the mandate for the deployment of Tornado reconnaissance jets, a frigate and up to 1,200 troops by an overwhelming majority of 445 votes in favour and 146 against. Seven politicians abstained.

    Germany, however, will not join countries like the UK, France, US and Russia in conducting air strikes.

    AFAIK it a recon mission for Germany and they don’t intend to do any bombing, granted the intel will be used by those doing the bombing.

    Merkel’s popularity has risen by 5 points after deciding to stand by France and contribute the Tornados for recce purposes. It poses a problem because they will be based in Turkey, but they don’t want Turkey to get the intel they recover in case they bomb the PKK and PYK? both Kurdish resistance forces. The Turks are bombing their Kurdish population anyway and this intel would be used against them.

    The problem might get even bigger as Germany has a massive Turkish population. Turkey’s provocation of Russia and it’s buying of Da’esh oil might have unforseen consequences on domestic security and political decision making in Germany.
    From what I hear, most people are against any involvement, but as usual it goes ahead anyway.

  264. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It is deeply saddening to see the Herald, the world’s oldest newspaper and once widely renowned, reduced to the level of tabloid pap.

  265. Grouse Beater says:

    The British press masquerading as ‘Scottish’ editions – not dissimilar to the Labour’s local branch pretending to be solely Scottish Labour, have always counselled against Scottish assertiveness.

    We are not alone as a country in having a right-wing press hell bent on ensuring wealth and prosperity lie with their owners, and with those companies that serve them, most if not all domiciled outside Scotland.

    What Scotland is allowed to have and to enjoy are the travelling versions of art and culture and sport, the small-scale back garden party events.

    And we are told we should be grateful.

    It isn’t as if we have only now woken up to these facts, but that we have rallied in sufficient numbers to cause the opposition to double their attacks and constraints on us.

  266. Bill McLean says:

    I look forward to the day when the BUMs are never mentioned on this, or any other, pro Scotland blog. Boycott them!

  267. Joemcg says:

    I have read the record for thirty odd years pre the vote and it always embarrassed me when they used to find any tenuous link to Scotland or being Scottish from sports stories to celebrities. It was toe curling stuff. Pretty ironic seeing they played a big part in shafting Scottish self determination.

  268. Grouse Beater says:

    I think I’ve surpassed myself – but I’ll clean it up later:

    http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2Ha

  269. gus1940 says:

    Breastplate at 9.54

    I agree – the editing out of the applause for Eck’s statement was so obvious.

    I wonder if it will still be edited out when the extended version is transmitted.

  270. heedtracker says:

    Bill McLean says:
    5 December, 2015 at 9:19 am
    I look forward to the day when the BUMs are never mentioned on this, or any other, pro Scotland blog. Boycott them!

    Then you’d have no WoS:D

    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary

  271. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lenny Hartley says: 5 December, 2015 at 12:48 am:

    “Regarding earlier posts regarding declaration of Arbroath. The concept of the people being sovereign is not limited to Scotland.

    Indeed, Lenny, the concept of the people’s sovereignty isn’t exclusive to Scotland. It is common throughout the Celtic lands.

    However, only in Scotland, in 1320, was the concept enshrined into the basic legal system of the entire Kingdom. The Declaration of Arbroath has since been the basis for other states to base their legal systems upon.

    These include the United States of America. However, none of them have the concept of the people’s sovereignty enshrined within the basic legal system.

    For example the USA has two parallel legal systems which often find themselves in conflict. Each state of the United States has a great deal of autonomy but is also subject to federal law.

    For example there are vast differences between state and federal laws over gun ownership and the right to bear arms. Another contentious subject is same sex marriage.

  272. @McBoxheid

    Ta for correcting with the actual facts.

  273. Robert Peffers says:

    O/T.
    I have for years posted comments along the lines of the Council Tax increases claims by Unionist run councils being a totally bogus concept and have tried to get across the reasons why.

    This morning someone, on BBC Radio Scotland, did the job brilliantly and put it very briefly indeed – he said this : –

    Council’s get roughly 15pence of every pound they spend from collected Council Tax. The other 85pence in every pound they spend comes from other sources – mainly from the Scottish Government grants.

    This rather put in true perspective the never ending whine of unionist party dominated councils for the powers to increase the Council Tax payments from hard pressed Council Tax payers.

  274. Breeks says:

    The other issue of Scottish sovereignty concerns its recognition by the Supreme Court in the AXA case that the Supreme Court couldn’t overrule the sovereignty of the Scottish people, and never could since “in perpetuity meant in perpetuity”.

    This occurred in 2011 I believe, and gives modern up to date relevance to the issue.

    I’m not a lawyer, nor an academic, but Google is your friend: AXA in the Supreme Court vs Lord Advocate. AXA challenged the right of the Scottish Parliament to make laws, and lost, but there were ramifications concerning sovereignty which were recognised by the Supreme Court which ran much deeper than that… sovereignty lies with the Scottish people in perpetuity.

  275. Bill McLean says:

    Heedtracker – hopefully everyone who comments, with one or two well known exceptions, is in favour of Independence, as the Rev is. When that day comes will we go on about the Record, Herald et al or will we just ignore them. OK?

  276. heedtracker says:

    When that day comes will we go on about the Record, Herald et al or will we just ignore them. OK?

    Fast forward 10 years and its still going to BUM domination of all Scottish media.

    Maybe in a generation, Scotland might have a media that is actually representative of all Scotland and not just the right, the UKOK unionists, a few super rich neo fascists, a state broadcaster not run by red tory henchmen…

    In other words, get used to it Bill.

  277. alexicon says:

    @ Robert Peffers.

    Did you also know that a large proportion, in some cases 50%, of the council tax goes into the public sector worker’s pension pot.
    In Falkirk, way back in 2008/9, Falkirk council collected £59 million in CT and spent £29 million on topping up the pensions of the public sector workers and it still goes on to this day.

  278. Dan Huil says:

    Front page of today’s Moray edition of the rancid P & J heaping praise on RAF Lossie’s brave Tornados as they heap misery on Iraq.

  279. Bill McLean says:

    Heedtracker – your opinion is Ok with me. However I did write “when that day comes”. It is possible that “when that day comes” neither the Record, nor Herald will exist. It is also possible that the Rev will, having helped achieve Independence, have moved on to bigger and better! I will express my opinion again. We, as individuals, should disengage from the BUMs for the reasons I stated earlier.

  280. McBoxheid says:

    heedtracker says:
    5 December, 2015 at 11:21 am

    When that day comes will we go on about the Record, Herald et al or will we just ignore them. OK?

    Fast forward 10 years and its still going to BUM domination of all Scottish media.

    Maybe in a generation, Scotland might have a media that is actually representative of all Scotland and not just the right, the UKOK unionists, a few super rich neo fascists, a state broadcaster not run by red tory henchmen…

    In other words, get used to it Bill.

    Why would anyone in an indy Scotland want to read what Warmonster has to say? It will irrelevant.
    Similarly, why would Unionist defecazzi want to promote English parties that don’t have any power in Scotland?
    Am I missing something?

    Slab won’t exist as a branch office, they will have to be for Scotland if the want any chance of a come back at all. Same for the Stories and the Slibdums.

  281. gus1940 says:

    Some cretin on GMS papers review this morning was singing the praises of The Record in comparison wih the other papers – probably hoping that everybody was going to rush out and reduce the enormous piles of unsold copies of that awful rag.

  282. heedtracker says:

    McBoxheid says:
    5 December, 2015 at 11:50 am
    heedtracker says:
    5 December, 2015 at 11:21 am

    Im not saying it wont change, business models have to adapt to demand, its probably what made same hard core unionist crew at the Herald produce the Sunday Herald and so on. So as long as they can peddle their news and tory propaganda, that’s what they’ll do.

    Same for STV, C4 and BBC in Scotland however is whole different kind of UKOK boil on the arse of humanity, or national treasure. BBC war propaganda’s been particularly horrifying this week though.

  283. Ken500 says:

    The Councils waste £Million/Billion of public money. They can borrow as well. They waste £Million/Billions on ‘projects’ the majority do not want and them complain they do not have enough money for public services. Against the public wishes and the public interest. Without a mandate. It is scandalous. Most of them should be put in jail.

  284. Angra Mainyu says:

    Ken500: “Why doesn’t the West just buy Oil, It would be cheaper.”

    Not so sure price is the only factor. The US. was itself the largest producer of oil until about the late 1960s, if I remember right, but the rest of the world was very reliant on cheap Middle East oil and still is. Whoever controls the Middle East has a lot of influence in the world. Japan gets about 90% of its oil from the Middle East, for example.

    Anyway, we do all buy it. Piles of cash from all over the world goes to a few governments in the Middle East in return for oil and they in turn bank that money in our banks which, given the way banking works, amounts to cheap loans for us.

    This who system of oil money arguably underpins the whole global capitalist economy when you look at the scale of it. So there’s a lot at stake in the Middle East for us. And that goes for the friendly Arab countries and their leaders too which is why they are ever so keen on buying armaments etc; a small price to pay in order to keep the whole thing going.

    It’s symbiotic with sugar on top.

  285. gus1940 says:

    O/T

    Re the Road Bridge problems they are talking about putting on a ferry service but where are they going to get ferries from?

    Can I suggest the following:-

    Take sufficient DMU units to make up a 6 coach train and run a shuttle service back and forward along the Rail Bridge between Inverkeithing and Dalmeny linking with a shuttle bus service at either end.

    It would depend on there being crossovers adjacent to the 2 stations – I don’t know if they exist.

    Obviously running such a service would interfere with the normal trains using the bridge but surely that would be better than the chaos and massive tailbacks being experienced currently.

    It doesn’t cater obviously for lorry and bus traffic but by reducing private car traffic trying to go via Kincardine it would help their progress – in fact if the buses which normally use the road bridge were added to the shuttle service at either end of the rail bridge that would also help.

  286. Effijy says:

    Please sign Nicola’s anti-bombing petition below!
    You can remain anonymous and you might just be the 100,000
    person to sign up and hit the required target.

    I’d find it comforting if 100,000 Scots declare that innocent human beings loosing their lives cannot be referred to as “justifiable collateral damage.

    Not in my name!

    http://www.snp.org/dont-bomb-syria?mc_cid=86a2a6caac&mc_eid=2ca6f3edb9

  287. McBoxheid says:

    Thanks heedtracker

    I think that wot the Rev Stu does is very important, these lies need to be answered and as IPstick doesn’t do it they will remained unanswered except by the likes of this site. He must have a very strong pain threshold and a low blood pressure, though. Thank you for your stalwart efforts Rev. Stu! (insert clap clap emo here)

  288. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Lesley Anne, You mentioned earlier about the Su 24 flying in Turkish airspace for 17 Seconds prior to being shot down. I beg to differ. It appears that the Turkish F16 crossed into Syria and fired from within. This was just after the Russian second bombing run and the subsequent pull out and heading back to base.

    Greek Minister of National Defense Panos Kammenos said in an interview “The attack (on Su-24M) took place in Syrian airspace. This is beyond doubt,” he said. “The Turkish side knows that, otherwise Ankara would ask to invoke Article 5 of the NATO Charter, requesting the Alliance’s help.”

    “This is undoubtedly a military action in the territory of another state,” Kammenos said. “But even more important point is the murder of the pilot, who was shot dead by members of the Turkish extremist group Grey Wolves.”

    Asked which side Greece should take, as a NATO member, the minister said – “the truth”. “If Russia had violated Turkish airspace, we would support Ankara”, the defense minister said.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/02/greek-defense-ministry-confirms-russian-su-24m-bomber-was-downed-in-syrian-airspace/

    Someone else mentioned the no fly zones imposed on northern Iraq. What used to happen there was that the RAF jets would pull off station for an hour or two. The turks would come in and bomb and then the RAF would come back on patrol. Its been happening for decades.

  289. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Re my last, The turks were bombing the Kurds, if it wasnt obvious to anyone. Which is also why they’ve only been given small arms, not heavy weapons and SAM’s as Alex mentioned in WM

  290. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thanks for your correction Alan … I think I was working from the BBC account of events at the time of writing my piece. 😀

    To be honest I did know that the 17 seconds *ahem* claim was questionable at best. I thought it, sort of, made the point about Turkey “invading” other countries without question, yet they get upset for what THEY claim was a 17 second flight.

  291. Valerie says:

    The Russians even said at the time, that the debris had come down on the Syrian side. Then they produced the picture that showed the route of the Russian jet.

    The propaganda machine is so strong, I go back constantly to check my facts, cos the BUM keep practicing mind fking.

    Excuse my language, I’ve still not recovered from the vote.

    Good piece by Mhairi Black today, a wise, articulate young woman, genuinely upset by Tuesday’s events, as you would expect.

  292. Andrew McLean says:

    Well it’s kicking off, RAF fighters are now caring air to air missiles, I wonder who’s jets they think might attack them, wish I’d kept my noddy suit!

  293. Andrew McLean says:

    Unles deash have jet fighters?

  294. christine says:

    @K thank you for upping my comment.

  295. christine says:

    @K if you view the interview plus a longer subsequent one on yew tewb Dumas mentions in passing the offer was made at “a private dinner with friends” so I doubt he will ever reveal any names.

  296. christine says:

    O/T re: France/french politicos

    French assemblee has now voted for max extension (3 mths) of state of emergency AND amendment to 60+ yrs old Constition.
    Rushed amendment in 48hrs! bypassing (thks to great numb of yes votes) consultation of Conseil d’etat = body holding power to block/amend/delay changes to Constitution.

    Changes to police powers during a state of emergency situation i.e. right now and for about 3 months:
    Powers of house searches+questioning+datadownloading frm computers+ phones of suspects not requiring judiciary approval has gone from individuals involved in dangerous activities – facts, objective,proof – to individuals merely behaving in manner which may seem as dangerous to public order etc – potentiality,subjective,thought crime?-

  297. christine says:

    Result already flagged by blogs green/environment protesters harassed under new powers esp those connected to famed zad camp.Gov bragging of many arrests however no detail of seriousness of offences nor real assessment of convictions hoped for.

    Meanwhile unfortunate innocent neighbours of bad guys destroyed by police – collateral damage,not warned not evacuated during operation ,lives risked- some wrongly pictured by press as accomplices, have now lost their homes being sheltered all 70 of them together in the ONE indoors basketball court, old,men ,women, traumatised children etc. french gov. + city of Paris council refusing to give them written promise of rehousing, despite support of local powerless councillor.

    One of them 60+ yr old man in neighbouring flat during horrible “operation” summoned to come to window hands raised complied only to be shot at, now in hospital.
    Instead of well deserved compensation for trauma/injury etc served in hosp bed immediate deportation papers as cld not provide ID…

    france cradle of human rights RIP…

  298. christine says:

    And now expected rise propulsed by recent tragedy of front national le pen party in today’s regional elections – not a party noted for its love of refugees…

  299. Tom Platt says:

    Your “Absence of Clarity” is, I think, a delightful euphemism for “deliberate distortion” in this case, as in others.



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