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Wings Over Scotland


A strange interpretation

Posted on October 20, 2016 by

The BBC and STV are reporting this today:

no10mandate

And yet.

This is the manifesto the SNP were elected on in May (page 23):

snp16manifestoeu

They got more votes than the Tories and Labour put together. They got 44.1% of all votes cast, significantly more than the 36.9% the Conservatives got in the previous year’s UK election. They beat their nearest rivals by 22 points, compared to the Tory winning margin over Labour at Westminster of just 6.5 points.

If the SNP don’t have a mandate to carry out their policies in the circumstances which are explicitly laid out in their manifesto, on which they won a third landslide victory, and which even the Daily Record backs them unequivocally on, then plainly nor does the UK government. (Whose own victory was won on the premise of a completely different Prime Minister, Chancellor and Cabinet to the ones in place now.)

And where would that leave us all?

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    1. 20 10 16 14:56

      A strange interpretation | speymouth

    104 to “A strange interpretation”

    1. Anagach says:

      Yes its in the manifesto, yes people voted them into power. But those are just facts, and facts are little if anything to do with the beliefs of the Prime Minister or her Government.

    2. A2 says:

      Short memory Stu? Super Majority required since yesterday!

    3. Chris says:

      Means they think they’d lose it. All the more reason to have one, the mandate is rock solid.

    4. Proud Cybernat says:

      Anarchy in the UK?

    5. Dr Jim says:

      Aye but there’s the respecting the vote thing and the will of the people thing and the respecting of the minority thing and respecting the the well Meee!! Ruth Davidson Screamer in Chief of the new and improved UKIP Tory Plottery

    6. Robert Louis says:

      Boom.

    7. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez! 😀

      Pretty safe to say that if any legislature has a mandate on these islands, then its the current Scottish Government. As the Rev points out, there are those on far more shoogly pegs where that subject is concerned.

      As for appetite?

      Have you filled out your national survey form yet?

      http://www.survey2016.scot/take_the_survey

      Let’s send a clear (crystal clear) message. 🙂

      If not, then get scribblin’.

    8. One_Scot says:

      The BBC and the Westminster government have a duty to promote and maintain their corrupt union.

      They will lie, say, or do whatever they have to, in order to prevent Scotland from having a better future.

      If we don’t get out now, we will surely be finished as a country.

    9. Arbroath1320 says:

      I can only assume that wee Mr. Eardley must believe all the tosh about the VOW having been delivered then. 😉

      So according to Mr. Eardley:

      Scotland is remaining in the E.U. … PARP! (to borrow a phrase from somewhere 😀 )

      13 Type 26 Frigates are being built on the Clyde … PARP!

      Pensions are safe … PARP!

      Scotland has “near Federalism” … PARP!

      Scotland is an equal partner in Westminster … PARP!

      Scotland will LEAD the UK … PARP!

      We are Better Together … PARP!

      HMRC jobs protected … PARP!

      Renewables protected … PARP!

      Steel plant protected … PARP!

      Investment protected … PARP!

      prices will stay low … PARP!

      I’ll leave it here for others to fill in a few blanks I may have missed. 😀

    10. Effijy says:

      We continue to be poisoned on a daily basis
      By Westminster politicians and a corrupt media
      That is entirely owned by the Elite.

      The long game is to extend the gap between
      Rich and poor for Another 50 years.
      Keep the workers away from the truth, lie to
      Them in unison, and promise them the earth
      But next year, not now.

      I’d give anything and everything to eradicate
      This plague of Vermont from Scotland’s shores.

      UKOK show on radio shortbread this morning:
      Prof John Curtis suggested that Nicola Sturgeon
      Is riding 2 Tigers and is hoping that neither eats her!

      Kaye, the impartial , lol, retorted : “you just put a
      wonderful picture in my head”.

      Eat it up and shut up Scotland.
      You are a jumped up English Colony.

    11. rosa alba says:

      Also the 56 were elected on an SNP ticket, which even if it did not mention Indy and i-ref 2 specifically, can assume an understanding of a broad intent to pursue Independence and as the funding and enduring raison d’etre for the Party and its existence.

    12. If as the BBC and STV are claiming Nicola sturgeon doesn’t have a mandate, despite being elected on that manifesto promise to carry out another independence referendum.

      Then by that same logic Theresa May doesn’t have an electoral mandate either here in Scotland to impose her Government’s policies on us.

    13. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      If one adds in the votes cast at our election for all the parties supporting independence the SNP, The Greens, The SSP/Rise, Solidarity a significant majority is produced

    14. Chris says:

      This obviously means there was no mandate for the EU referendum either

    15. HardandShrimp says:

      Westminster telling Scots they can’t do something….it just gets better and better 🙂

      I think we might just do this.

    16. DerekM says:

      No mandate,no referendum,no no no no Scotland do as you are told.

      Hmmm and the survey says PARP get lost May and take your paid shill propagandists with you.

    17. heedtracker says:

      And where would that leave us all?

      Good question. Its a worry but it’s maybe just hard core conservative muscle flexing, English style. Trump’s done the same last night by threatening to refuse to accept the result of the US Pres election.

    18. Another Union Dividend says:

      Remember how EU Nationals living in UK were not allowed a vote in the Brexit referendum. Imagine the outcry if IndyRef2 was restricted to those who were born in Scotland or noted that they were Scottish in last census.

      However the draft bill should prohibit financial contributions or telephone /online campaigning or busing activists from outside Scotland or campaigning by newspapers owned outside Scotland.

    19. David McCann says:

      OT.
      Breaking news!

      Ruth Davidson booked to appear on Great British Bake off Extra

    20. Luigi says:

      “does not believe there is a mandate for one” is a bit softer than the expected “I will not allow one under any circumstance”. It leaves quite a bit of wiggle room for Mrs May.

      Aye, looks like we are in for a rather lengthy game of Constitutional Call My Bluff

    21. HandandShrimp says:

      Two of Holyrood’s parties made it clear that they stood on a pro-independence platform. Between them they got about 50% of the vote.

      That is a mandate May. A better mandate than you will ever get.

      As for Kezia, I think she has taken Yoonery to new levels of acquiescence. I doubt there is a thing the Tories could do that would change her stance.

      Gerrymander constituencies so as make another Labour win extremely unlikely? No problem.

      Victimise EU citizens? No problem

      Crash the UK economy? No problem

      Kezia thinks so little of Scotland that any Tory decision is better than running our own country.

      Not an attractive position to hold. Can’t see Labour leading anything in Scotland. Wonder if all her people will hold the Yoonderland ranks.

    22. Liz g says:

      Sooo that’s wit the problem is Westminster doesn’t understand what Mandate means.
      They really should have said something before now.
      There might be a few people in Scotland that could have told them.
      Now we are going to have to demonstrate it to them.
      Bet …. PROUD CYBERNAT…… could even illustrate it for them.

      Brilliant video by the way Proud Cybernat.

    23. Arbroath1320 says:

      David McCann says:
      20 October, 2016 at 1:38 pm

      OT.
      Breaking news!

      Ruth Davidson booked to appear on Great British Bake off Extra

      Hmm … 😉

      Recently our leetle tankette come buffalo rider has been on Unspun with Matt Forde and I believe HIGNFY. Now she is going on GBBO Extra? What’s the matter with her does she not have a day job? 😀

    24. galamcennalath says:

      Consider May’s mandate for a hard Brexit!

      – in power with a totally undemocratic 37% vote
      – not the cabinet nor leader which won the election
      – with a manifesto commitment to be pro EU
      – waver thin referendum result
      – a win based on false promises and xenophobia
      – repesenting a UK regional party
      – a party totally rejected by one Union nation

      HOW DARE THEY TALK ABOUT MANDATES!

      The contrast between the SNP’s watertight mandate, and the Tories’ shoggly peg, could not be greater.

    25. heedtracker says:

      http://archive.is/NPTtI

      May is horrid, Brexit is bad, says Polly Toynbee. No mention of you know who in her Scotland region. Big changes coming by the shed load for England, lets ignore it.

    26. Ian says:

      Paul Samuelson, the Nobel laureate from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, recalled that John Maynard Keynes once was challenged for altering his position on some economic issue. Keynes provided his own impeccable defence.

      “When information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do you do, sir?”

    27. Blackhack says:

      Cognitive dissonance strikes again…..

    28. North chiel says:

      interested in knowing how many MSP’s the SNP would have at Holyrood under first past the post ( as per the Westminster Tories ) and not the current PR system within the ” mandate context” . With 37 pc of of the vote under PR at Westminster , the Tory MP count would have no mandate whatsoever .

    29. DerekM says:

      Eh now that Daily Record article just confuses me has the editor gone on holiday?

      Or does it have anything to with being scared witless in case the wingers do another hatchet job on them lmao

    30. Bob Mack says:

      They can say what they like. The mandate is rock solid,and I believe there is a majority.

    31. Clootie says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 1.27pm

      …but remember Dave the unionists get to count all the people who didn’t vote on their side. 🙂

    32. One_Scot says:

      ‘The Prime Minister and the (UK) Government does not believe that there is a mandate for one.’

      Fortunately, what they believe, and what in fact is actual reality, do not even inhabit the same universe.

    33. clipper says:

      C’mon folks get donating if you’re serious about gaining independence.

      https://www.gofundme.com/informscotland

      Sorry for o/t so soon but this is important, very important.

    34. manandboy says:

      OT. Wingers, you’re not going to like the new consultation on IndyRef2.

      It would appear to be the opinion of the Scottish Government, that the conduct and conditions of IndyRef14 was near perfect, so we’ll just have a repeat – with a few tweaks as per the UK Government changes.

    35. Ruby says:

      I like the idea of spending time trying to figure out what ‘Better Together’s’ argument will be in IndyRef2.

      A very large part of their argument in IndyRef1 was about EU membership. Obviously they won’t be able to argue that the only way to retain EU membership is to vote NO nor can they argue that Spain vetoing iScotland’s EU membership would be a disaster for Scotland while at the same time arguing that we’re Better Together in Brexit Britain.

      There will be no argument re Currency Union because the YES campaing will not seek to have a currency union.

      What’s left for them
      Faslane jobs
      deficit
      UK largest market
      shipbuilding

      Anything else?

      David Cameron gave permission for ‘legal’ referndum because he was sure he would win! Relutance on the part of Westminster to allow a second ‘legal’ referendum indicates that they are no longer sure they will win.

      When David Cameron signed the Edinburgh agreement the idea of a devo-max question was ruled out. How many times did you hear Michael Moore say that a devo-max question would ‘muddy the waters’ however by the end of the referendum the issue was well & truly muddied by the VOW!

    36. Grouse Beater says:

      Middle England got England into the crap. Why does England expect Scotland to get it out? Another case of England’s interests prevail.

    37. shane fraser says:

      Westminster Governments Are Masters At Starting War And Killing.
      I Hope And Pray Everyday For Scotland To Believe In It’s Own Destiny .. When Lies Become Truth And Truth Becomes Lies, That Scares The Fuck Out Of Me.

    38. Joannie says:

      Wow! I didnt’ realise they’d put it that plainly in their election manifesto. The case for a second indy referendum is even stronger than I thought.

    39. galamcennalath says:

      IF the Prime Minister and the (UK) Government does not believe that there is a mandate for one, is that finally an honest admission that she no longer speaks for all of the UK but for only her party’s southern zone?

    40. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Arbroath1320 says at 1:51 pm and David McCann says at 1:38 pm

      “Ruth Davidson”

      Remember when Bumbling Boris got bigged up by HIGNFY look how that panned out, helped him get the London Mayor Job by making him popular in the eyes of the public.

      Same appears to be happening with the Ruthenfurher.

      Make her appear witty and popular so people forget she is a Tory.

    41. Dr Jim says:

      There are no grounds whatsoever for Theresa May to try to refuse a referendum…Except One

      The Tories would have to contend Scotland was not a country

      Do they dare? I double dog dare them G’won Ruth and Fluffy G’won G’won You know you want to say it, G’won!

    42. Ruby says:

      manandboy says:
      20 October, 2016 at 2:21 pm

      OT. Wingers, you’re not going to like the new consultation on IndyRef2.

      It would appear to be the opinion of the Scottish Government, that the conduct and conditions of IndyRef14 was near perfect, so we’ll just have a repeat

      Ruby replies

      What do you think was wrong with IndyRef14 vis a vis ‘conduct & conditions’
      Did you not like the question?
      What about the franchise?
      Length of debate?

    43. Robert Louis says:

      clipper at 221pm,

      Wow, that is extremely interesting. I like the idea of using billboards to get the message out about the lying propandist BBC in Scotland.

      link https://www.gofundme.com/informscotland

      Well worth a few pounds, IMHO. Spread the message.

    44. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      And the WM Govts. argument is basically:

      1. You’ve no mandate for another Indy Ref because we say so.

      2. There is no appetite for another Indy Ref because our rigged polls tell us this so.

      They really are sh**ting themselves now.

      Only helps Soft Nos to come over to Yes as they get their backs up at May telling them what they can and can’t have.

      Special deal for London in EU but Scotland will be dragged out kicking and screaming ‘cos WM say so??

      Is my watch fast?

      Just the tick, tock seems to be quicker than normal 🙂

    45. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      As for comments on Billboards:

      Always thought Proud Cybernats imgurs of the Oil barrel and the bar graph re Scots Gov, WM and EU would make cracking billboards.

      Emancipation through Education 🙂

    46. Arbroath1320 says:

      Ruby says:

      There will be no argument re Currency Union because the YES campaining will not seek to have a currency union.

      What’s left for them
      Faslane jobs
      deficit
      UK largest market
      shipbuilding

      Anything else?

      To be fair Ruby I think the Faslane jobs were shot to bits last time round as we constantly pointed out that Faslane would turn from base of mass destruction into a combined Scottish Defence Force base. Secondly most of the jobs THEY claimed we’d “lose” were actually people who only stayed up at Faslane Monday to Friday or stayed on the base so they didn’t impact the local communities very much.

      As far as the deficit is concerned did wee Ozzy the towel folder not come out with a statement before the last referendum that ALL the debt belonged to Westminster up till the point of Scottish independence. (or have I misunderstood, as per usual, what deficit is? 😉 )

      In terms of shipbuilding we are not exactly rolling in orders because the dear old M.O.D. have, apparently, run out of money and so can not sign off on their order for Thirteen Type 26 Frigates.

      As far as the UK being our largest market goes I do not see that as being a problem either. After all if they are our largest market they will still want our products. More over when they they claim to be our largest market just how much of our production stays in the UK and how much is transferred onto UK exports figures? 😉

      Other than that I’d say you are pretty spot on with your thoughts there Ruby. 😀

    47. Dan Huil says:

      @JWT 2:25pm

      She just comes across as shallow and disingenuous. Johnson was elected because England is full of tories.

    48. Robert Louis says:

      Regarding the Scot gov consultation, if you don’t like the plans, that is what the consultation is for. Address specific points, in each question. The postal vote nonsense is a real concern I have. Also, stupid, immature Tory leaders announcing results before 10pm should be put in jail.

      The electoral commission is pretty useless. Chocolate teapot springs to mind.

      I agree though, I do find it worrying that Scot gov seem to think everything was tickety boo last time around.

    49. Robert Louis says:

      Actually one billboard I’d like to see, would just have 2 maps. one, the BBC teeny wee shrunken Scotland map, and the other the ACTUAL map of Scotland. No comment would be required other than stating, BBC map of Scotland vs.actual map of Scotland.

    50. heedtracker says:

      Graun and BBC use same photo of a bloke in a saltire mask. Its that desperate for teamGBists of the UK.

      http://archive.is/XkdmD

      BBC have allowed comments for some reason and keep switching photos of the guy in a Saltire mask. Fair enough its UKOK hackdom action and at least no one’s Hitler or a gorilla, so far.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37708545

      “Mrs May has said that all parts of the UK will leave the EU at the same time despite calls from the SNP for a separate arrangement to be agreed for Scotland.
      But she has said she is “willing to listen to options” on Scotland’s future relationship with the EU.”

      Which Viceroy Baron Fluffe Mundell will deliver onto the natives of his Scotland region.

      Will the liggers keep getting be made up to UK Lords, Ladies, Baron’s, when Scotland does finally shake them off?

    51. bjsalba says:

      @Ruby
      A hard Border with England.

    52. Ruby says:

      Dr Jim says:
      20 October, 2016 at 2:29 pm

      There are no grounds whatsoever for Theresa May to try to refuse a referendum…Except One

      The Tories would have to contend Scotland was not a country

      Ruby replies

      I did reply earlier with a link to David Mundell saying exactly that but it seems to have disappeared into cyber-space

      See

      An Auld Sang Gang Wrang

      http://derekbateman.scot/2014/03/26/an-auld-sang-gang-wrang/

    53. Liz g says:

      bjsalba @ 2.48
      Bit I thought England liked border’s.
      They really should thank us for giving them another one.

    54. Nana says:

      O/T I posted this earlier today

      Everyone! this what you have been waiting for. . .

      Launched today and aimed at erecting a large number of giant billboards across Scotland aimed at the BBC https://www.gofundme.com/informscotland

      Here is the Facebook link – ‘like’ and ‘share’ it widely https://www.facebook.com/Inform-Scotland-1969903196569754/?fref=ts

      We have been busy collating links to BBS bias articles and videos from right across the YES world and passing them on for loading to the lads and lassies at http://www.informscotland.com . There is a queue of 150 more to go on the site at the moment.

      GA Ponsonby and Prof John Robertson both contributed their material on the BBC and we have links to articles by the Rev and many, many other authors writing on BBC.bias

      Get sharing this fundraiser – its time to get back at the BBC https://www.gofundme.com/informscotland

      Fundriaser and Facebook are LIVE – we are testing the website right now -website will go live tonight 20-10-16)

    55. Stoker says:

      (sigh)

      The FUDamentalists still trying to dictate play i see. Yesterday they were going orgasmic over the idea of a super majority and today they’re attempting to rewrite the SNP manifesto.

      Anyone else feel the FUDDY’S would be shite at blind-mans-bluff or Poker? OK, fair enough, Poker was a step too far, too complicated for such minuscule and feeble minds.
      _____

      Jockanese Wind Talker wrote:
      “Is my watch fast? Just the tick, tock seems to be quicker than normal.”

      Your watch is perfectly fine my friend, time has indeed stepped up a gear and all timepieces are now running tic toc tic toc…

    56. Brian Fleming says:

      Ruby replies

      What do you think was wrong with IndyRef14 vis a vis ‘conduct & conditions’
      Did you not like the question?
      What about the franchise?
      Length of debate?

      Question fine, franchise understandable, length of debate spot on, security of polling stations shaky, security of count totally off-the-richter-scale insecure, reliance on Electoral Commission naivity bordering on (or beyond) the suicidal.

    57. heedtracker says:

      Fundriaser and Facebook are LIVE – we are testing the website right now -website will go live tonight 20-10-16)

      Can’t wait Nana!!!

    58. heedtracker says:

      Fundraiser and Facebook are LIVE – we are testing the website right now -website will go live tonight 20-10-16)

      Can’t wait Nana!!!

    59. Robert Peffers says:

      There can be no dispute about the fact that legally the people of Scotland are legally sovereign. This is the main basis of Scottish law. Furthermore, there is legal precedent under English Law, (Which Westminster legislates under), that a sovereign, just by being sovereign, cannot give away the kingdom’s sovereignty.

      Thus neither the Queen, the Westminster Government or anyone else in the entire World can prevent a majority of the people of Scotland exercising their sovereign right to rule. That is the reason they are attempting to ignore the true legal facts now.

      Westminster has always assumed, even before the Treaty of Union, that England held sovereignty over the rest of The British Isles, and also such as Gibraltar, The Falkland Isles and the Channel Island Bailiwicks. There is not a shred of legal evidence that they do, (excepting over Ireland, (and they lost half of that), and Wales.

      Wales is an English Principality, Northern Ireland is an English Province and the Channel Islands and Man are Crown, not Westminster, protectorates.

      The Queen is legal Queen of Scots, not of Scotland, and her legal duty is as protector of the sovereign people of Scotland’s sovereignty.

      That all boils down legally to the Queen being the legal owner of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. The protector of Jersey, Guernsey & Man but being the protector of the Scottish people’s sovereignty.

      However, her sovereign powers in the Kingdom of England are legally delegated to the Westminster Parliament under English law. This law does not apply to Scotland because Scotland, the only other Kingdom extant in 1706/7, is an equally sovereign Kingdom along with the three country Kingdom of England. The Treaty of Union article states that Scottish law will remain, in perpetuity, independent from that of the English Kingdom.

      There is also much history of the English Kingdom’s intransigence in regard to Scottish legal sovereignty. Witness that there have been several Scottish, “Claim of Rights”, ignored by Westminster.

      Yet under English law this is an established illegal action dating way back before even the English, “Glorious Revolution”, when the Kingdom of England gave up the law of, “Devine Right of Kings”, that, status of Constitutional Monarch, is English law today but has never applied to Scotland.

      Note too that the Glorious revolution legally affected only the English Kingdom and was the direct cause of the Jacobite Uprisings that began in 1688, spanned the Treaty of Union. It was still being fought over in 1745 at Culloden, almost 40 years after the forced Treaty of Union.

      So here we go again – but this time we Scots must make it stick and NOT allow them to just ignore our legal sovereignty ever again for not even an English court can legally uphold the Westminster claims of sovereignty over Scotland. Their hold over Scotland is only as good as the majority of the legally sovereign people will allow.

      It has always been the case that those who assured that Westminster continued to hold sway over Scotland were unionist Scots. These long acknowledged, “Paircel o Rogues”, are the real enemy of Scotland. Not the normally reasonable and good people of England.

    60. G says:

      This is the best thing that could have happened. I am astonished that Theresa May is so inept.

      It is clear to the average voter that if there was a mandate for a vote on Brexit then there’s a mandate for indyref2. It will become even more clear once the bill is voted through the Scottish Parliament with the support of the Greens.

      Any attempt to frustrate the referendum taking place, such as denying the mandate or trying to impose artificial thresholds, will just increase support for independence.

      Ruby @2:22
      The two main arguments from what I’ve seen so far are the notional deficit from GERS, and the argument that rUK is a much bigger market than the EU, so “why leave your biggest market to protect a smaller market”. There is also still talk about what currency we would use, but I think this is easily answered – £Scot with our own central bank. For me, it’s primarily about democracy not economics (that’s not to say I think we’ll be worse off – quite the opposite). I believe unionists will focus on economics, like they did before. It’s easier to scare people, fudge the figures, and to sound like the cold voice of reason.

    61. Habib Steele says:

      Clipper & others. I want to donate to this, but you need to provide proof that it’s not a scam.

    62. Ruby says:

      bjsalba says:
      20 October, 2016 at 2:48 pm

      @Ruby
      A hard Border with England.

      Ruby replies

      You could easily argue that would be a good thing in view of the fact that England doesn’t seem to be very good at controlling their borders they have no idea how many illegal immigrants there are in the UK and then there is the prospect of France cancelling Le Touquet agreement. I suppose it would be handier if ‘The Jungle’ was based in Dover then the immigrants could have regular dental checks.

      Tourist love crossing hard borders especially when they get a stamp in their passport. We could design a nice passport stamp for all tourist crossing the ‘hard border’ to Scotland.

    63. BrynnaBob says:

      Britannia will sink in its splendid isolation. For goodness sake Scotland, don’t be dragged down with it.

    64. heedtracker says:

      STory and SLabour, BetterTogether again, fighting Scottish democracy together forever. Its a very heavy hitting start from the whole BT 2.0 freak show though. P&J’s actually self combusterised.

      “But the Scottish Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale, described the draft bill as “irresponsible economic vandalism”, warning:

      And speaking before the publication, the Scottish Conservative leader, Ruth Davidson, vowed that her party would fight proposals for a second referendum “every step of the way”.

      Dugdale has also written to the Scottish parliament’s presiding officer, Ken Macintosh, asking for… a safe Lab seat down south.

      She’s out Labour campaigning hard today in West Yorkshire, where the seat is not being contested, out of respect for Labour MP Jo Cox.

      Why the current Scottish Labour boss is out campaigning in an English by-election like this, is all about your career in UKOK politics.

    65. skozra says:

      Survey filled out, thanks for the link above (Macart @ 1.15pm)

    66. Macart says:

      @skozra

      Nae bother. 🙂

    67. Maria F says:

      “The Prime Minister and the UK government doesn’t believe there is a mandate for one”

      Well, so what?

      The prime minister and those currently forming the UK government are entitled to express their opinion as everybody else is.

      But the issue here is not what the Prime Minister (that Scotland didn’t elect) and the UK government (that an 85% of the Scottish electorate voting at the GE rejected at the polls)or even the only Con MP (representing only a 1.69% of the electorate from Scotland)believes.

      The issue here is what the Scottish people believe.

      We like it or not, the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament is what more accurately reflects the democratic will of the Scottish people, as they both are integrated by representatives elected by PR exclusively by the electorate of Scotland and not by the citizens of our neighbouring country as it is the case with n10 and the present UK government.

      Scotland deciding to seek independence from an Union that may not longer be suitable or beneficial is a matter for Scotland and for Scotland alone.

      I do not think it is for an UK government elected by our neighbour country and rejected by the 85% of the electorate voting in Scotland during the last GE to decide. In my opinion that should be reserved to the Scottish government and the Scottish Parliament, both democratically elected exclusively by those living in Scotland to represent those in Scotland.

    68. Chic McGregor says:

      The SNP got 50% at the last election (Westminster).

    69. Meg merrilees says:

      Westminster is worried. May has no mandate, ply elected by her MP’s , not gone to the country. She really can’t get away with saying Nicola has no mandate – rank hypocrisy!

      The game’s on!

      Arbroath 1320@13.51

      Ruth Davidson is shameless. She has manipulated her way onto GB Bake Off to worm her way into everyone’s living room so that your Granny will think, What a lovely, homely wifey she is – I like her so much I’ll give her my vote – not that nasty ‘poison Dwarf’ Nicola what’s her name, can’t stand her! She’s always banging on about Independence and I like the Queen!

      There’s no such thing as bad publicity!

      Done the survey – let’s see who’s got the mandate!

    70. Ot but I see those space idiots have failed again who in their right mind would waste billions of pounds to see if there is water on mars or life on it ., there is life on earth and I know for certain food banks and hungry people but let’s divert the money away from the people by spending it on fairy tales and an unelected House of Lords £300 a day subsidised bar and canteen ., and of course trident and illegal wars any thing but spend it on the people think of how ordinary peoples lives could be improved if that money was spent on them welcome to this is your life.,,

    71. Ruby says:

      Brian Fleming says:
      reliance on Electoral Commission naivity bordering on (or beyond) the suicidal.

      Ruby replies

      I vaguelly remember Alex Salmond proposing something other than the EC and there being a stink about it. I’ll need to do a bit of research about that.

      FAO the nag who keeps telling me to slow down!
      Look here I am very busy! You might have nothing better to do but to sit there and tell me to slow down but I am very busy and have loads of things to do!
      Perhaps you could speed up & get my posts uploaded a bit quicker. Thank you!

    72. orri says:

      The myth that Scotland was extinguished may be a (deliberate ?) misquote. The actual legal advice being referenced introduces the concept only to immediately dismiss it as being an irrelevance and explicitly pass no judgement on it.

      Now it’s possible that dismissal was prompted by those like Mundell who insist that it be true rather than be the source. In either case he was either a fucking liar who is deliberately continuing to use an argument that means sod all or had the argument that Scotland had somehow been extinguished thrown back in his face. In either case the official position is he’s a wanker.

    73. Arbroath1320 says:

      orri says:
      20 October, 2016 at 3:47 pm

      The myth that Scotland was extinguished may be a (deliberate ?) misquote.

      Not quite so sure about that Orri. 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OIRUr4R7GQ

    74. Maria F says:

      Meg merrilees says:

      “Ruth Davidson is shameless. She has manipulated her way onto GB Bake Off to worm her way into everyone’s living room so that your Granny will think, What a lovely, homely wifey she is – I like her so much I’ll give her my vote”

      Don’t underestimate the Scottish grannies Meg! I think more than one may well be thinking more on the lines that judging by how much she enjoys showing her face in these inane programs rather than do what she is being currently paid for here in Scotland, perhaps she is not deserving of her seat after all.

      I see her participation in these programs as another way of making herself popular and a familiar face in England. This to me could be yet another sign that things are not that rosey in the unionist tank commanding front here in Scotland. I am convinced that she is heading to England after Scottish Independence.

    75. Ruby says:

      http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article3097210.ece

      Nationalist fury at plan to put Electoral Commission in charge of referendum [Scot Region]
      Davidson, Lorraine. The Times [London (UK)] 18 July 2011:

      The UK Government is heading for a row with Alex Salmond’s administration over the running of the planned referendum on independence.

      David Mundell, the Scotland Office Minister, has revealed a plan to force the SNP-led government to bring in the Electoral Commission, to oversee the plebiscite. He is planning legislation to give the body a legal role in the forthcoming vote.

      The proposal is an attempt to wrest some control over the running of the referendum from the First Minister, who wants to set up his own commission to take charge of the historic vote. Mr Mundell said: “Whatever Alex Salmond may wish, we can’t simply set aside the legal and procedural formalities that will be required for a referendum of this significance. That’s why the UK Government is seeking comprehensive legal advice, because even if we didn’t raise a challenge, third parties might.

      “There are issues to consider, such as the wording of the question and the franchise, which is where the Electoral Commission might have to be given a statutory role.”

      Mr Salmond has given a strong hint that he wants Scottish voters to be given two questions: one on independence and the other on enhanced tax powers for the Parliament.

      David Cameron’s Government believes that the independence issue should be settled as a straight Yes or No question.

      Because the Scotland Act was passed before the setting up of the Electoral Commission, the elections body does not have the power to take charge of the plebiscite. However, Mr Mundell has warned the First Minister that his planned vote could be open to legal challenge unless he co-operates with Westminster over its wording.

      The plan was rejected last night by the SNP, which claimed that its proposal would ensure transparency. The party insisted that the running of the referendum was a matter for Holyrood and should not be subjected to a “Westminster power grab”. The Nationalists claimed that the plebiscite would be run to the highest international standards and that a regulator, accountable to Holyrood, should be set up to fulfil the role.

      Angus MacNeil, the SNP MP, said: “The Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition at Westminster are all over the place. Their position changes from day to day, and from week to week. David Cameron has said this is a matter for the Scottish Parliament. Is David Mundell challenging him?” He added: “These issues have already been addressed and Scotland’s referendum will meet the gold standard in terms of transparency and rules — the draft Bill published last year by the Scottish government provides a clear template.

      “The referendum will be run to the highest international standards and the Scottish government believes that a regulator, in the form of an independent Scottish referendum commission, accountable to Holyrood, should be established to fulfil that role.”

      The SNP also faces calls from Labour for an independent commission to look at the proposed referendum question and its timing.

      Anas Sarwar, the Labour MP for Glasgow, said: “Scotland’s constitutional future is far too important to be decided by one political party, one party leader and one ego.”

      The Electoral Commission said that it was always happy to share its “knowledge and experience” of overseeing elections.

      Credit: Lorraine Davidson

    76. shug says:

      well its is the BBC
      Call Kaye next week should be screem

    77. I know this is way of topic so please forgive me but I have always wondered why when Mary queen of scots came home from France her name and her decendants were not spelled in the original Scottish way ie., Stewart rather than the French Stuart ? Maybe Robert Peffers could help

    78. Ruby says:

      I thought that ‘Crawford & Boyle’ legal document was the weirdest thing ever.

      I thought the idea was to give us legal advice re the EU being that the UK Gov for some very strange reason refused to approach the EC for a definitive answer.

      However this Crawford & Boyle document was of no help regarding EU status as they said:

      ‘Whether the accession process could be varied in Scotland’s case, given that it is already subject to EU law as part of the UK, might be a subject for negotiations’

      &

      ‘All this is not to suggest that it is inconceivable for Scotland automatically to be an EU member. The relevant EU organs or Member States might be willing to adjust the usual requirements for membership in the circumstances of Scotland’s case’

    79. One_Scot says:

      Having just read the Greens response to the bill on Independence, for me, what makes IndyRef2 even more striking, is the fact that it is being brought forward by two different political parties.

    80. Robert Graham says:

      The current UK Government might not have a legitimate mandate to even be in power right now , if the outcome of Police inquiries in at least Seventeen constituencies down South goes against them ,If evidence is found that enables a charge of Electoral fraud to be brought against them ,and a Criminal act may have been committed because this is a Criminal act and MPs could serve time , would that mean all legislation that they have brought before Parliament is Questionable including this EU referendum .

    81. gus1940 says:

      Can we have suggestions for future content for the billboards.

      My initial thoughts are:-

      1)The hoary old chestnut asked thousands of times but never answered ‘If Scotland is such a financial basket case why are they so desperate to hang on to us?’

      2)A comparison between the relative population levels of England and Scotland in 1707 and the 2011 Census.
      It might be better to use the figures from the 1841 Censuses for both Countries as that was the first Scottish Census.

    82. geeo says:

      Seems to me the PM is talking to the people south of the Scottish border…”look at me, tough on EU tough on Scotland” sort of thing.

      Boy, is her fall going to be a landing on glass.

    83. Petra says:

      Nick Eardley of the BBC. Spokesman for Westminster now. Never out of number 10, so he’ll know right enough.

      …………….

      Billboards: Yes we’ve got a gripe with the BBC and should highlight their lies but I’d love to see McCrone and Stolen Seas being advertised. Another is WGD’s latest: it’s brilliant too. The list of every place on the planet that’s more powerfully devolved than us. Mind you I doubt a billboard could cater for that list. Then there’s Stu’s oil article / the recent 15 billion black hole …. millions of others. The list is blooming endless. Whatever the case this has to be ongoing until we get our Independence.

    84. Luigi says:

      Ruby says:

      20 October, 2016 at 2:22 pm

      I like the idea of spending time trying to figure out what ‘Better Together’s’ argument will be in IndyRef2.

      1. We have had enough referendums. So divisive. Let’s get the country back together.
      2. Scotland’s 15 billion black hole. Your economy will tank (further?).
      3. You will be forced to use the EURO.
      4. rUK is your biggest trading partner.
      5. Hard border at Gretna.
      6. BREXIT is great for Scotland.
      7. Vow 2.
      8. Gordon Brown intervenes.

      In other words, the usual nonsense. 🙂

    85. Chic McGregor says:

      Gus

      Poster suggestions.

      1. I would like to see a poster with updated graphs from eurostat showing the parlous state of the underlying UK economy.

      For example, on manufacturing, the UK is near the bottom in Europe with only tax havens and small tourism dependent countries below it, while for equipment investment, which is the first thing to do to rectify that, it is at the very bottom.

      Likewise, the UK has a horrific balance of trade deficit, even including financial services. Again down at the bottom.

      But worse of all the Total External Debt, which includes all debt owed to external creditors, personal household debt, financial debt e.g. mortgages as well as Government debt, is truly frightening. Nearly as big in absolute terms as the American debt with a fifth of the population.

      And that situation has been in existence for some years and does not include Brexit ramifications. It is highly unlikely that London will retain its financial sector in anything like its current form, even if Brexit is initially ‘soft’.

      The water is already lapping at the feet of the deckchairs on the UK Titanic.

      2. I would like to see two kitchen tables with the food and drink produced per person per day for Scotland on one and the equivalent p4d for England or for the rUK on the other, side by side.

      Similar could be produced for electricity production, timber production, etc.

    86. Neil Ralley says:

      With all due respect this should not be a surprise to anyone. Theresa May has made it abundantly clear, on numerous occasions, that she will fight tooth and nail against a break-up of the United Kingdom. We should fully expect her to use every tool and trick at her disposal to achieve her end which is to ensure that independence does not happen. Winning this contest and holding, and winning, an Indyref2 and achieving actual independence at very least will require careful strategic planning, steadfast determination and systematic execution. However, IMO, the harder that Westminster fights the more certain that independence is in the best interests of the Scottish people and also more likely to succeed.

    87. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Nana says at 2:53 pm

      “Everyone! this what you have been waiting for. . .”

      Definitely long overdue Nana, great news.

      Also good that GA Ponsonby and Prof John Robertson both contributed material.

      Other Billboard ideas could be:

      1. A map of the EU countries with the state pension for each country in GBP (£) printed on the country in question.

      2. A Map of UK showing the kilowatt hour costs of electricity generation showing the high price in Northern Scotland to the rebate levels in SE/London

    88. Sheryl Hepworth says:

      ”Robert Louis says:
      20 October, 2016 at 2:38 pm
      Regarding the Scot gov consultation, if you don’t like the plans, that is what the consultation is for. Address specific points, in each question. The postal vote nonsense is a real concern I have. Also, stupid, immature Tory leaders announcing results before 10pm should be put in jail.

      The electoral commission is pretty useless. Chocolate teapot springs to mind.

      I agree though, I do find it worrying that Scot gov seem to think everything was tickety boo last time around.

      I really had fun doing this ‘consultation’ I gave it both barrels with every point against polls counts, transport exit polls, everything that I could!!

    89. Les Wilson says:

      The recent suggestion on Brexit is that Westminster would be prepared to give billons of pounds to the EU to keep it’s financial status, ie pasporting etc.

      They must be proposing to do this to keep the wealth that system brings into London.I cannot see that happening, I do not think they have considered the EU position very well at all.

      Why?, because both Frankfurt and Paris are trying very hard to take this over. So do they think a few billions will encourage Brussels to allow it to happen. When they can have all this, and the money it generates for it’s coffers, via either of the cities mentioned?

      I do not see the UK winning that argument at all.

    90. Breeks says:

      Far as I’m concerned, not being independent gives you a mandate for an independence referendum.

    91. Ken500 says:

      The Tories did not have a mandate for the EU Ref. They committed electoral fraud in 31constituencies. They are rotten to the core,

    92. arthur thomson says:

      Slab, ‘led’ by Dugdale, are IDEOLOGICALLY opposed to Scotland being self-governing. There are no circumstances, however dire, that would lead her or them to support another referendum and they will oppose independence at all cost.

      Corbyn – great leader of Brit Labour says nothing on the subject because he too is ideologically opposed, hiding behind the Tories and the risible Dugdale.

      These people get awfully upset at their mistreatment by the media and their Tory chums but their ideology of exploitable collectivism overrides all.

    93. Tam The Bam says:

      Other Billboard ideas could be:

      1. Map of UK showing costs to add electricity to the national grid – showing high charge in Scotland compared to rebates in southern England

      2. Time bar chart showing number of Scottish MPs at Westerminster over time to show the reduction over the last few decades (and soon to fall to 53). How can we influence Westerminster with lower and lower numbers of MPs?

      3. Oil funds in UK & Norway built from N Sea extraction. Zero compared to billions with one word underneath – Why?

    94. yesindyref2 says:

      Ref that consultation, I was “Grand” to the lot of it, apart from the request for an exit poll.

      But for those with concerns about postal votes, stipulate as well as your concerns, that the procedure for postal vote processing after posting should be clearly published, and explained to the public, well in advance of sending them out.

    95. Peter Barjonas says:

      2014 referendum: a result for a generation.
      October 2016: a new UK government and political change in strategy,
      EU membership rejected.
      This a generational change.
      Bring on this generation’s indyref as soon as possible!

    96. Breeks says:

      @ Yesindyref2 6:48

      Postal Ballots stink. Even done properly and all above board, there is just something cringey about the process. You cannot prove there has been tampering, but nor can you prove there hasn’t, and then angelic little cherubs like Ruthie let slip they know the result before it’s been counted. What the feck is a “sample opening” of postal votes??? So much for being locked up and secure. Like I say, it stinks.

      But put into perspective, any irregularities about postal ballots and the impact they have on the result is surely dwarfed by the impact of the state propaganda machine and its concerted campaign of manipulation and control of the narrative.

    97. Rock says:

      “If the SNP don’t have a mandate to carry out their policies in the circumstances which are explicitly laid out in their manifesto, on which they won a third landslide victory, and which even the Daily Record backs them unequivocally on, then plainly nor does the UK government.”

      In the undemocratic UK parliament, the Tories have a majority of MPs who can force through legislation.

      In the democratic Scottish parliament, the SNP do not currently have a majority to force through legislation.

      The SNP have the mandate to try and carry out their policies as a minority government but they have to rely on the support of others to pass legislation.

      If and when the Scottish parliament votes for it, Nicola will have a mandate to hold a referendum, assuming that Westminster does not have the power to block one.

      At the moment, unfortunately, the SNP do not have the mandate to HOLD a referendum.

      As in their first term when they had to abandon their policy because the unionists would not have let it pass.

    98. rog_rocks says:

      As well as the UK Prime Minister, Chancellor and Cabinet being entirely different from the one elected i.e. not elected, there is also the investigation into the election bus spending fraud & if true they even cheated to get their majority of 6.

      This would mean that in reality they should be in jail, along with their banker chums & have no mandate anywhere.

    99. Fred says:

      @ Blair Paterson, Anent Mary Queen of Scots use of Stuart as the French had bother with the letter W. Her marriage to Lord Darnley, who was off the Lennox Stewarts, is probably the reason.

    100. Foonurt says:

      Wurr gittin cloasurr.

      “Panic in the streets of London…..” (S.P.Morrisey)

    101. mike d says:

      It should be an eu commission in charge of the Scottish referendum. As this is what the issue of indy is about,not the electoral commission,wouldn’t trust them to be impartial.

    102. Thank you Fred for your reply

    103. Tarisgal says:

      Much as I like the dislike idea that Theresa May is governing Britain atm, unfortunately I think she has as much right as Nicola did when Alex Salmond handed the reins over to her after Indy1, to get in too much of a twist about that. We accepted Nicola as ‘the’ head honcho of Scotgov in those circumstances so as I see it (and I may well be wrong… I often am) May too has gotten in the same way 🙁 Now that is NOT to say I LIKE her demeanor in regards to her Scottish counterpart, Nicola and Scotgov. Or believe she has a mandate to tell Scots what they will and will not do as regards IndyRef2! I’m thinking ‘fair enough’ she became the new PM through the stepping down of DC. BUT – Sorry! She is a carbunkle on Scotland’s ass. And she is NOT Scotland’s overseer! She herself has NO right to cry ‘no mandate’ when it is the Scots themselves that will determine that.

      As regards billboards…

      1) I believe from ‘chatting’ to Indy dissenters that the Deficit is the issue they will confront ‘soft no’s’ with and it will be the old argument that Scotland is too much in debt to be able to be self-sustaining without England’s ‘broad shoulders’… So I think a good, short explanation that there IS NO deficit needs to be publicised to the folks that believe that old chestnut…

      2) I also think a good clear meme/graph proving Scotland is NOT poor, is needed. Folks have to be reminded of the strengths we have such as energy, whisky, computer games industry, tourism… We have to make it REALLY CLEAR how rich Scotland is.

      3) We also need a good, clear comparison of the English NHS as opposed to the Scottish NHS – making the English one look just as bad as it is, so people are absolutely clear what a ‘no’ vote will bring them. I’m not really for negativity in a election situation, but I think this is a BIGGIE whereby people really fear for the loss of this great (and FREE at the moment) institution! I think we have to be clear how it is fast disappearing in England and that will impact the Scottish system too.

      4) a focus on pensions too. The older people on basic pensions and nothing else genuinely fear for their lives without that support! Many people just have not had the income to salt money away for their retirement and thus do not have any extra income apart from that basic pension! So it behooves the ‘yes’ side to make it clear the pensioners will have absolutely nothing to fear in an independent Scotland.

      If we are looking to garner extra votes from the older ‘no’ voters, (and I think it’s a group we could sway with the right arguments) we have to judge what fears they have and then address them well so there are no uncertainties about how they will cope as they get older and need more care services. It IS a worry to them, this is what will determine how they vote and if the Scotgov & ‘yes’ can win their trust, we can win their votes. It’s a big chunk of the electoral role we’re talkin’ about…

      I think a dirty trick or two… outlining just how Ruth Davidson & David Mundell are NOT helping Scotland but prioritising #1 (themselves). As I said, I don’t think negativity is the way to go as a rule, but I think people need to be reminded of how these despicable two capitalists think of their constituents and how they have perpetuated the ‘Scots too stupid to even take umbrage at our insults’ myth in WM. It does no harm to remind Scots of the atitude of our ‘rulers’…

      I’m liking a lot of the ideas & comments here. Have contributed to the Billboards and can’t wait to see the first of them up on a wall! 🙂



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