Respectable author Allan Massie (father of Spectator columnist Alex) rather shames himself in today’s Scottish Mail On Sunday, with a particularly grim piece of what we assume is supposed to be comical crystal ball-gazing, painting a melodramatic picture of an apocalyptic post-independence Scotland as seen by Project Fear.
Over 2500 words long, it ticks all the boxes – no currency union, a mass exodus of business, Spain vetoing Scotland’s EU membership, economic Armageddon forcing the return of tuition fees and prescription charges, Trident staying on the Clyde permanently, Orkney and Shetland voting to stay with the UK and somehow taking the oil with them in direct contravention of all international law, and so on.
Which would all be a super piece of knockabout fun, were it not for the fact that we’ve already almost lost count of the number of times the right-wing English media, and in particular the Mail itself, has already trotted out this same dystopian drivel.
Andrew Roberts, Daily Mail, May 2008:
“The new Prime Minister frowned as he stared across the Cabinet table at the embarrassed looking Scottish High Commissioner. Had he heard correctly? Was President Salmond really asking that Scotland be re-admitted into the UK, after only 15 years as an independent state?
They had been tumultuous years, of course, and ‘the Tartan Revolt’ had endured its ups and downs – mostly downs.
But was the Scottish Nationalist Party genuinely proposing to abolish itself, admitting the whole experiment had been a disastrous failure?
“I shall have to confer with the Cabinet, of course,” the Prime Minister said.
Barely able to growl “Thank you, Mr Osborne”, with a twist of his kilt the High Commissioner left.
Harry Mount, Sunday Times, 1 December 2013:
“Aye, we are metric,” said the Ghost. “Wee Alex Salmond didnae like the sound of imperial measures. Reminded him too much of the evil, old empire.”
Surely Salmond wanted to hold on to the pound?
“Aye — but he also wanted all the oil money,” said the Ghost, “and he didnae want any part of the Sassenach £1.2 trillion debt. He couldnae have all three. So he went for the oil, the mingin’ numpty!”
Andrew Roberts, Daily Mail, 14 January 2012:
“Salmond’s defeat in the 2018 elections, and his replacement as Prime Minister of Scotland by Labour’s Wendy Alexander, the former MSP for Paisley North, was perhaps inevitable.
After only four years of independence, in June 2018, Wendy Alexander made a momentous visit to Downing Street, where she was greeted by the new British Prime Minister George Osborne.
‘You’ll know why I’ve come, George,’ said Mrs Alexander once inside. ‘I’m afraid I can’t begin to imagine,’ joked No 10’s new occupant. ‘Do enlighten me.’
‘It seems our forefathers knew more than we guessed when they united our countries for 300 years,’ replied Wendy Alexander somewhat grandiloquently.
‘Scotland would formally like to request re-admittance into the United Kingdom. Let us restore the blue to the Union Jack; let Scottish passports be consigned to the dustbin of history.’
Osborne looked at Mrs Alexander for a moment, considering hard the effects of another 5.2 million people on the books of the NHS and the huge increase in Britain’s welfare and benefits bill — let alone having an extra 41 Labour MPs sitting opposite him in the Commons.
He answered: ‘I would love to help you rejoin the Union, Mrs Alexander, but the British people — without Scotland — would have to vote for it in a referendum. At present they seem happy with the status quo…’”
Anyone would think they were running out of ideas.
It’s funny how the same kind of people who falsely accuse independence supporters of saying independence will lead to a land of milk and honey then tell us Scotland will become a barren wasteland.
Pro-Yes hyperbole: bad. Pro-No hyperbole: good.
‘Firing blanks’ is the phrase that immediately springs to mind when reading their outpourings…
Their flush is well and truly busted
Managed to almost read to the end but just couldn’t do it!! What a piece of shit!! Honest question. Does this man actually get paid for writing this drivel??
Salmond’s defeat in the 2018 elections, and his replacement as Prime Minister of Scotland by Labour’s Wendy Alexander, the former MSP for Paisley North, was perhaps inevitable.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Brilliant.
Truly awful stuff from Massie. The man has written some fine fiction in his time, but this makes him appear foolish and jaded.
Another casualty of the ongoing calamity which is UKOK, he has become an irrelevant windbag of Mingesque stature.
Aye shamed is a good word for it. If I knew who the dude was right enough ?
Reckless mince from NO side, but it can’t be that big a deal since I’ve never really read this guys work, but If this is what is being pumped by this guy in the English press regularly then why should I be surprised.
Only part of the grey vote up here will buy this crap after all.
Special reserve / resource cupboard of bollox getting pretty bare ???
Massie = Choob.
Is it really that bad? It’s not tremendously witty but surely it’s satire?
If it’s not then (a la Alan Partridge) “I stand corrected, said the man in the orthopaedic shoes”.
From the 2012 Roberts piece:
‘the moment in June 2015 when the Orkney and Shetland Islands declared their own independence from Scotland, and their intention to become part of Norway, taking with them 23 per cent of Scotland’s North Sea Oil revenues, was the turning point.
The Edinburgh parliament, having done the same thing to Westminster the previous year, could not stop the referendum taking place, in which the Hebrideans voted by 71 per cent to leave Scotland the following March.
As an autonomous region of Norway, the Hebrides soon turned out to be among the richest people per capita in the Northern Hemisphere.’
The Hebrides?
It’s that level of insight and knowledge from South British academics that will end up destroying the case for independence.
@Rosco_v1 says
I’d go with the shoes; not very witty if satire was what was being attempted, more like offensive blurb for certain clappy audience)
Comments open on the BBC website re the Sunday Herald supporting Yes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27274460
Massie going on to write dystopian Sci Fi is he?
This is sort of thing is obvious and utter nonsense. The truth is going to be rather more prosaic. I think we can and will build a better country but it will take time and the improvements incremental.
There will be no instant land of milk and honey and there will be no post apocalyptic nightmare. If there is a post apocalyptic nightmare it will be because Scottish independence triggered a global apocalypse…but no one would be stupid enough to suggest that could happen.
@gordoz,
agree , comes across like it was written by someone who is not half as smart or witty as they think they are.
They’ll be talking to themselves soon and interviewing each other to try a find copy.
I wonder when they will run out of lies, completely new ones that is?
Who is this Mrs Alexander anyway? ‘Alexander’ is her maiden name. God, they can’t even get that right…
Massie’s piece is so obviously true, isn’t it?
As any fulke knoe, those American colonies which foolishly broke away in 1776 have spent the last 238 years pleading to abandon their foolish experiment and return to being ruled by upper-class twits dispatched from Whitehall.
I reckon we should get behind the London media and support their commitment to recycling. Very progressive thinking Mr. Massie. Forwards to a sustainable future in an overly centralised Britain. Not.
Massie’s version of armageddon has all of these catastrophic events happening before Scotland even becomes independent in March 2016, while we’re still part of the UK.
Ignoring the fact that it was largely ludicrous shite, I found it quite amusing.
Does anyone actually read that rag anyway? I suspect that over the next few weeks we’ll see the Sunday Herald sales soar, the others plummet and panic station zeta set in down in camp misery.
Why is it journalists wholly incapable of writing dialogue resort to it for satire as if seasoned screenplay writers?
Idiots!
Bless them, they’re very, very worried
Just seem editor of Sunday Herald being interviewed on BBC News 24, it seemed a fair and respectful interview
A scary bedtime story, but i prefer the one about how King Alex saved the English people from Westmonster,after he had uncovered their secret lair and evil plans. The evil doers were all sent to Gnome,Alaska,to think again.
I have never knowingly bought the Daily Mail, but have had occasion to read it. Drivel pertaining to be news,who does actually buy it, and what are they thinking?
Allan Massie is a good literary writer. It’s rather sad to see him taking on the role of performing seal.
Ten to go, then I promise to shut my geggy. Get in there!
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
Allan Massie is a good literary writer.
I await the line up of Royal baubles dispensed to loyal No supporters once independence is carved in granite!
Only 10 signatures needed.
Alicsammin says ‘please sign it’.
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
I bet he had the tissues out while he was writing that, and not because he was weeping the departure of Scotland.
Ladies and Gents,
My comment is a ‘knee-jerk’ reaction only, based on my first thoughts and without having read everything but,is it possible Mr Massie Snr was trying to pour scorn on the Better Together portents previously issued under Project Fear, to show how ridiculous these would be if all came about. – (Just sayin’ like)
I love the way they’re fantasising about Scotland asking to come back and also fantasising about saying no. Is that really supposed to be an argument for the union? Its almost like they’re trolling Scotland – you should vote to stay in the UK, and you should also know that we don’t want you here.
Weird.
They are just a bunch of grotesque fear mongers. Fact is that for at least a million people in Scotland, life is this bad in the grand old lottery of teamGB life.
Here in Aberdeen the Press and Journal likes to publish daily the photos of the latest court convicted “benefits thieves” but the faces of these souls look they live in a war zone anyway. Naturally same P&J liggers never show photos of the super rich City boys that robbed us all but they do show senatorial photos of the likes of betttertogether boss Alistair Darling and the many Westminster MP’s that silently pilfered from their expenses accounts.
Even if it is not satire we should treat it in our normal Scottish way and laugh at it – that normally takes the wind out of the sails
Will Wendy Alexander have a job after independence
@ian foulds
It’s possible I guess, but if that was the intention, it’s completely negated by having it published in the Daily Mail. Unless Massie is having a huge laugh at the DM’s & their readers’ expense.
Now my head hurts. 🙁
Signed the Patton petition.
And all the other ones… (maybe there’s a career in this) 😉
Saw this article this morning, but couldn’t stomach reading the shoite, so went straight to the comments section and to be fair the DM took a pasting in the whole. Of course there was the usual ukipers and doom mongerers who actually believe this stuff.
The DM is scraping the barrel, but I’m sure it will scrape even further below come closer to the referendum.
One of the things that creeps you out about Unionism – apart from the fact its advocates consist of the likes of Michael Kelly – is this approach where the UK is the dominant and potentially violent dominant partner which will welcome back the subservient partner on its own terms after the latter has made a botch of absolutely everything in attempting to sever links with the bully.
More than a bit sinister really.
I’m trying to count up all the colonies who have beaten a path to Downing Street asking to be run by them again. Unfortunately, my list isn’t long, but that must be down to my woeful ignorance.
O/T This picture floating around on Twitter apparently shows Anas Sarwar holding one end of an Lfi banner…
I’m suspicious for numerous reasons (everything from photoshopping to bandwagon-jumping) but thought it was worth a heads up…
https://twitter.com/YesScotlandYes/status/462933045272510464/photo/1
ian foulds sayd:
4 May, 2014 at 1:38 pm
Ladies and Gents,
My comment is a ‘knee-jerk’ reaction only, based on my first thoughts and without having read everything but,is it possible Mr Massie Snr was trying to pour scorn on the Better Together portents previously issued under Project Fear, to show how ridiculous these would be if all came about
I think there is an element of that given the closing sentence and the subject of the video directly below it.
In both countries many hope for a generation of politicians with the vision to make the case for a new Treaty of Union. How long both nations will have to wait is, sadly, anyone’s guess.
But I think the depressingly outlandish vision presented in a firmly unionist publication, is most probably what you might expect it to be, IMO. Rhymes with fish.
And Wendy Alexander? Of course, compared to Action Krankie, Ms Alexander appears intelligent and engaging. But then, so does Ian Grey.
O/T
Lib/Dem MP Malcolm Bruce getting interviewed by Andrew Neil on the BBC.
His full title came up on the screen as:-
Sir Malcolm Bruce MP.
Had a wee laugh at it, because come March 2016 he will be known simply as wee Malky Bruce.
And hasn’t he read the history of his surname, Robert the Bruce King of Scots 1314 Bannockburn, must have been mentioned to him at some point in his life, surely.
At the very least, you would think he would want Scotland to become an Independent Nation.
Stuart
Your skill for finding apposite titles is normally second-to-none, but in this case should the title be, “A dirge we’ve heard before”?
Ha ha ha ha ha, pay no heed, to this crap, just think how bloody stupid, and foolish they will look, after they are all wrong. Think of all the front page posters we can make, lol and stick it to them on a regular bases. They are only making rods for there own backs , ha ha.
these journalists have had no scrutiny over their words for decades, scrutiny is here now though and people are seeing what a lot of drivel these journalists spew forth, most reasonable people i expect have no respect for shit like this, or the author.
You know to this day the Sun paper, is not on sale in Liverpool
for spinning lies about the Hillsborough tragedy. If yer cought reading a sun paper in Liverpool god help ya. The sun has been run out of town, thats the powerful message the people sent murdoch, !!!
“We don’t want to sing along
We don’t want to sing along
We know every word to the song
But we don’t want to sing along”
Chumbawamba – We Don’t Want To Sing Along 🙂
Heard all about Mr Massie’s article on radio Scotland this morning, the guests on Ken MacDonald’s show thought it amounted to no more than unionist scaremongering, by Mr Massie. The guests thought it would drive undecided voter to the YES camp due to the sheer negativity of the article.
O/T
The Sunday Mail has given Paddy Ashdown a three-quarter page spread, which is entirely devoted to attacking Alex Salmond, and independence. Mr Ashdown, goes on to say that he knows Alex Salmond doesn’t speak for Scots,and Mr Ashdown then quotes, the late Robin Cook that Alex Salmond is unfit to lead.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-should-apologise-poor-3494580
Also in the Sunday Mail though not in the online version,is the story of posters being sold at the (GOMA) Gallery of Modern Art. The posters depicts the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow as a festival of binge drinking, the posters called “The Glesga Games” replaces the Glasgow Commonwealth Logo’s with, ones related to stealing and boozing.
Glasgow Life headed by none other than, Archie ( I’m one of the highest paid Labour councillors in the UK) Graham, (Johann Lamonts husband)who are responsible for the GOMA and ergo its contents,said the cards had now been removed, they also apologised, I can’t help but wonder what kind of coverage this would have gotten, had Glasgow been an SNP controlled council.
Thinking of who else you could ‘invite’ to a dinner party for some light conversation
Alan Massie
George Robertson
Dick Cheney
Iain Gray to look after the coats
This fiction drivel merely demonstrates the level of knowledge of the realities of life in modern-day Scotland. Massie’s abysmal view of an apocalyptic post-indy Jockland must have been gleaned from the likes of Ian “Separashun” Davidson and Panda Mundell.
Read this from an earlier post. What utter tosh. I have been telling people I correspond with on Independence, that within 7-10 years of Independence, Scotland will be a great and prosperous country to live and work in. I for one will be party to helping Scotland in acheiving this status in the world.
@Juan P at 1.19 pm
2nd comment on the BBC website on SH declaration on Yes vote.
“Surely newspapers should be independent, showing no bias or favour, reporting accurately and without spin, promoting balanced debate, giving adequate space to both sides of the argument and generally NOT behaving like Lobby Louts.
BBC News please take note.”
For us Wings contributers/readers, you just have to laugh.
Jock Scot – How about Margaret Curran and Johann Lamont to sing a couple of the Cheeky Girls’ hits?
If Massie is so sure Scotland is a basket case then can he please explain why it is that Westminster that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing is so desperately trying to hold on to it?
So Norway would let the Orkney and Shetlands in and partake of their Oil Fund having contributed nothing? Really?
Well that should be the bottom of the barrel well & truly scraped, now Mr Massie go stand in the corner beside Gordon Brown………….NEXT!
Kininvie says:
4 May, 2014 at 1:55 pm
O/T This picture floating around on Twitter apparently shows Anas Sarwar holding one end of an Lfi banner…
The pic is legit as I know someone who was there.
Marian
If Massie is sure Scotland is a basket case then…
… can he explain why he hopes the value of his home will keep increasing.
Only one more signature needed on Ian’s BBC/CBI petition, to get it to 1000. Who’ll it be?
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi
@ haud on the noo
…in that case, everyone’s staying remarkably silent about it.
I’m all for Labour MPs/MSPs jumping ship…but…
Ian Brotherhood
You now have 1000 signatures – my wife was number 1000.
Yay – Ian Brotherhood’s petition has now reached 1000.
Oh what a happy Sunday this is. 🙂
Had this facebook entry pointed out to me a wee while back. Seems Flipper is about to have a debate 😮
http://www.facebook.com/yesnhsscotland/posts/455752081237139
@TJenny –
Yeeeeee-ha!
Looks like it was Jim Carey in Edinburgh.
Cheers Jim. Now I can stop going on about the thing.
1000 reached, Well done Ian for starting it, and well done the “first thousand”
@saporian –
Oops! Sorry Mrs Saporian, I was just looking at the last comment.
Good stuff folks. We started it Thursday before last. No idea if that’s good going for this type of thing, but a thousand of anything is a lot.
But will they take any notice?
The boy has one vivid imagination. If he keeps this up, he’ll be giving J.K. Rowling a run for her money on fantasy literature…
@ Ian, Sometimes it’s good to just throw a rock in the water, and see all the ripples it causes.
O/T Met this morning with others to see what can be done about the Yes in the Park event. Will report in Off Topic soon.
Fantastic Ian. Well done on you’re efforts. 😉
Ian Brotherhood,
Well done, mate. Good luck with the next stage.
Ian
But will they take any notice?
Do as the BBC did, in an extraordinary move, sent a fierce rebuttal to Professor’s Robertson’s employer, principal and the trustees of his university, dismissing the professor’s research showing extreme bias by the BBC as “poor and faulty.”
Ken McQuarrie, BBC Scotland Controller.
And one copy to counterparts at BBC HQ, London.
UKOK propagandist like this dude Massie clearly have no recollection of how or why virtually every major city in England went up in flames during the 2011 riots for days on end. At what point was Westminster going to order live round shooting at rioters and what stopped them anyway? Scenes like the photo above probably and hot civil war on the streets of London. When Thatcher took over in the 70’s there were loads of heavily armed, shotguns mostly, landed gentry militia waiting to fight off revolution in England. All is not well in England.
O/t, guys, the scotsman has just been infested by quite a few very nasty unionist trolls on the comments pages. Reading through the knowledge that you guys have on here,you could all wipe the floor with them. If any of you have the inclination, go on there and educate them as we are getting outnumbered.
Wp – sorry, no can do, wouldn’t go near the SoS or Scotsman if you paid me.
Much better to let them rant among themselves. They are mostly trolls whom I expect will eventually turn on each other without Yesers input.
Testing
This is the reason i stopped reading all the scare and smear and looked outwith the MSM to get a view for myself. A self confessed pro-union backer , i have seen my country dragged through the sewers over the last few months and continually told by “all in the know ” what we cant do.
And the effect it has had on me ????? THREE BLOODY GUESSES
I will vote YES.
I have served in our forces and have family and very dear friends in the rUK. Living in Yorkshire and Wiltshire and unaware of the changes going on in country. Since returning home i have seen why so many of us feel the need to do so much better. This cant be done if we stick to the status quo. This is not my view over a couple of years. More than 20 years have gone by with which to make my choice and independence looks better option than anything on offer by the rest.
Foodbanks were the last straw. The mere thought of people (not just our children for god’s sake) not having enough to eat shames me so much it drives me to get the message out . ENOUGH of this . I worked in Africa and saw starving ,desperate people in need and we gave it in the knowledge that it could never happen in our country. Well it does.
Please keep up the incredible work you and the other sites to get the message out. And the scare story’s will get worse .Just ask the doubters to look around and give a positive for whats happening to us. Give me one bloody reason why this union is good for us. The sham the MSM throw out each day only re-inforces my view that YES will prevail. The fact The Sunday Herald is onside can give us even more hope. 1 down 36 to go .
The question is – did Anas Sarwar know what it was he was holding? Can’t imagine he would change horses now.
heedtracker
I think there are lots of steps before live rounds would be considered and I don’t really think they were that close to the line. I think the riots in the early ’80s were worse. I might be wrong about that though. I don’t think the folks in England are happy bunnies, by any means, judging by the support for UKIP.
Wp
You know the one about wrestling pigs….. Not on a Sunday, thanks. 😉 I’d probably be heavily mod-ed anyway, as a new user. Not sure about the knowledge bit either. 🙂
“rather shames himself in today’s Scottish Mail On Sunday”
Simply not possible given the laughable nature of the ‘journalism’ present on Rothermere’s organ.
YESGUY
Welcome to Wings and welcome home. Good first post. Just keep firing them in now.
@Greannach
Brilliant and why not Lembik Opik for a laugh and I noticed Ian Davidson getting mentioned..
Jock Scott says
“Iain Gray to look after the coats”
He’ll only lose them!
shock.. comments open on BBC about Sunday Herald…
//www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27274460
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27274460
Over on NewsNet Scotland, Colin Fox of the SSP to address the Oxford Union next week on a debate on Scottish Independence. Well done Chris. Can’t wait to view it online.
These stories make Scotland sound like a cesspool which any sensible person would want nothing to do with and give it a wide berth.
Not good old LONDINIUM they are going to rape pillage and plunder Scotland at any cost, even if it kills US. They will lie, steal, frighten and I believe even put lives in danger to plunder this wee inoffensive country bleed it dry then dump it when of no further use.
These UNIONIST types are hanging onto LONDINIUM’s coat tails like the mix race Indians after independence in 1947. They unfortunately were dumped by the masters, despised by all, nobody wanted them they hung their coat on the colonist peg, then the colonists took the peg away but left them, they are expendable.
Got a Sunday herald, first time in years. I would just be careful till I get confidence in their sincerety.
Some time soon an interesting set of figures are going to appear on a desk in Gannet Towers and a cheif is going to be very interested in the editorial line taken by one of their wee papers.
After all the only editorial policy that matters is the one that sells papers, I imagine the Guardian will be taking a close look as well.
I concluded this at my place this morning.
This article/work of fiction, as it must be given that it starts on the morning of the 19th September, has a very simple summary.
Be afraid of Yes!
But we’re long past being affected by fear. Let fiction remain where it belongs – bound to the printed word – and let us treat fear with the contempt it deserves.
Laugh and Vote Yes!
Papadox
“I would just be careful till I get confidence in their sincerity”.
I think it is about boosting flagging sales more than anything else. Nonetheless it is a terrific boon to the YES campaign and as I mooted earlier if it sells newspapers the dailies may think about coming on board.
Quite entertaining over on the BBC comments section. Usual BT types at great pains to say how unimportant the Herald is, a point they keep making every 10 minutes.
Action speaks louder than words 😉
OT
But just posted here
http://calumcarr.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/adam-tomkins-two-positive-cases-for.html
on Adam Tomkins 2 Positive Cases for the Union
The Daily Mail calls Mr Massie’s article, “Brilliant”.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2619458/So-happens-Scotland-votes-yes-Camerons-quit-Queen-furious-Shetlands-taken-oil-Scottish-economy-tanking-A-brilliant-imagining-life-Union.html
More comment on FaceBook about certain shops refusing to stock the Sunday Herald now.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/sovereignscots/permalink/658390504234435
If true, shocking state of affairs.
Some has obviously bought the Sunday Herald:
https://twitter.com/YesWindaes
some=someone
Calum Carr
The first two lines of this were enough for me.
“the UK is at the helm of the E.U.,U.N.Security Council,NATO,G7,G8,and G20.”
In short Westminster is running the world and here was I thinking it was just Americas lap-dog.
Hi Cameron, after England’s mass riots, its pretty disorientating reading some creeps’ pretty terrifying crap basically but I bought the Sunday Herald despite being very sure never to buy any UKOK media garbage again but the local co-op had them on top shelf and they seem to sell aswell as Sunday Times etc.
Anyway all of these reprobates have had a go, mind bettertogetherGuardian’s insipid Severin Carell with his ghastly guerilla war shtick or his boss Martin kettle’s “Even acts of violence are not inconceivable in certain circumstances or places, as anyone with a smattering of knowledge of the Irish treaty of 1921 will grasp” all because Kettle saw that Bisset play?
Here in Aberdeen and the North East, the Press and Journal sells 70 thousand a day with daily project fear headlines like yesterday’s, vote yes and you’ll get passport controls on English border, credit agencies say there is virtually no Scots oil left, stay in the UK for the sake of the poor and Aberdeen uni says vote No, from a debate of 150 of them but they don’t say there’s actually over 16 thousand student at Aberdeen.
There is obviously a lot more vote no P£J pressure too and they also wants us to worship the Queen and David Cameron but you can kiss the Flippers ring too, suckas!
Tom Pride is onto something here, when we are reflecting on the campaign, we will need to call this day Super Sunday 🙂
http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/how-astrologers-predicted-cameron-was-doomed-to-failure-in-may-2010/
Is there a single example in modern history of a state voluntarily becoming independent, then seeking to reenter the old union some years later?
Anyone?
Oh forgot to add, the Tom Pride reckons that Cameron will not get re-elected, I reckon the stars are forecasting the success of the YES campaign 🙂
Desperation so extreme that even the feartiest of NO voters may begin to doubt their veracity…
So this what Flipper has been up to when he is between blinking episodes.
edarling.fr
no translation necessary
Testing again
O/T BBC trying to stop any pleasure we might feel,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27274864
Well done Ian!
Sunday Herald getting lots of coverage on radio and TV stations! Good for business? Anyway we will take all the help we can get , and be dammed Massie!
Jim Mitchell
I wonder if the BBC and CBI stop their subscriptions to the Sunday Herald?
Just been in the local Asda and couldn’t see any Heralds but did see an overflowing pile of SoS’s with half price flyers stuck in them, but obviously no takers lol.
@ Jim Mitchell, but its the usual BBC angry hypocrisy though as Cooke winds up his vote no day with “When it comes to the press, the Sunday Herald is a rare friend for the “Yes” camp in a prickly field of foes.”
If Cooke had only added that his bettertogtherBBC in Scotland was the biggest prickle of all?
Massie’s story can best be described as a Unionist masturbatory fanstasy
WOW!
BBC open their article about the Sunday Herald up for comments so being the kind hearted person that I am I offered up a comment. 😉
Unfortunately the good old BBC *ahem* claimed they were having difficulties with my post, oh dear. 🙂
I shall leave it to the individual reader on this site to figure out what has happened to my post. 😛
While running down yes on telly a report I heard said that only 24,000 copies are sold of the Sunday Herald.
Once it gets around about it’s position,I think that circulation will rise.Even I bought a Sunday Herald today for the first time.
Its odd that Norway wouldnt make a play to prise the Orkney & Shetlands islands away whilst under London rule but only when Scotland gains independence. More delusional Slaverings from Brit nat Massie. Oh dear, with their fantasy unionist politics they really have a long long way to fall come a Yes vote. The lunatics really have taken over the asylum at bittertogether lol.
Bagged the last copy of the Sunday Herald in the petrol station which surely some cybernat had positioned over the SoS newspaper! None left in Morrisons superstore though whilst the other rags were still aplenty on the shelfs. It kind of tells you which way the wind’s blowing. Will lend the SH my support but on a week to week basis to see if they keep their word. Here’s hoping.
So, I bought my first newspaper in years this morning. It took a visit to three shops to track one down though, and even then it was the last one they had left.
I’m not sure it’ll ever catch on as a method of getting news though – it’s much easier to read on my laptop or tablet. 😉
Is the Scotsman moving over to Yes? because this article won’t help Project Fear at all.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/heath-knew-policy-would-kill-fish-fleet-1-634422
Tamson 4.13
There are not many examples of this to be found and most examples are historical and of minor importance. The Yucatan peninsula declared independence from Mexico in 1840 to become the Republic of Yucatan. They were neutral in the Mexico/American war of 1846 to 1848. They then rejoined the Mexican state voluntarily in 1848 and have been part of Mexico ever since.
Is that a picture of the Govan Young Team on the rampage on a saturday night?
Christ these unionists and their fantasies!
“What force or guile could not subdue,
Thro’ many warlike ages,
Is wrought now by a coward few,
For hireling ("Tractor" - Ed)’s wages.
The English stell we could disdain,
Secure in valour’s station;
But English gold has been our bane-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation! “
HoraceSayYes.
Newspapers get your hands dirty with ink. Yesterdays technology as you say.
O/T BBC trying to stop any pleasure we might feel
Aye, but watch this space:
The Scottish Sun may yet back a vote for “Yes” says the [Sun] source or it may take a neutral position, although as things stand it is highly unlikely to come out for “No”.
Must be disappointing for BT that the Sun looks like being neutral or possibly Yes.
Personally, I don’t think newspaper endorsements really have a big effect, other than through ‘normalisation’, but having the Daily Mail on the pro-union side is certainly a bonus. 😉
Don’t get to excited about lack of Sunday Herald’s on newstands, as a past regular reader it was always sold out, obviously with its limited (approx. 23k circulation) was never many out there anyway. Having said that they did seem to sell out faster than normal today.
scottish skier 5.15
“Personally, I don”t think newspaper endorsements really have a big effect”
Disagree on that one. Anyone who buys the likes of the Record or Sun is brain dead and incapable of thinking for themselves.
Even as work of fiction this is dire. I would suggest that Mr Massie does give up the day job and go back to Uni where I am sure they will show him his errors. Such as regarding your readership as fools such as himself.
Scottish_skier – I think you’re right about it being mostly a “normalising” effect, but that’s a bigger deal than you might think. One of the problems we have just now is low information voters having nothing “normal” to show them a Yes-positive angle. Vile Cybernats have been so comprehensively smeared that anyone who doesn’t use the internet much (which is still an enormous chunk of people over 50 and an awful lot of people on low incomes and in the highlands because broadband is a struggle for them) that no-one is likely to trust ANYTHING on the internet. If respectable mainstream papers start taking a Yes position (and the Herald has always been Scotland’s most respectable paper) then people can feel like serious people support Yes so maybe it’s OK to give in to what I think is most people’s natural default position – if we can do it, we should. The next couple of polls should be VERY interesting.
testing
Comments disappearing…
Ot and sorry if this has been brought up before.
Found out that the “UKOK” branding/Logo is actually an official branding of the british tourism authority (BTA) or visit britian which is in turn a government department with a multi million pound budget.
Would be interesting to find out if they have permission to use it. Is it copyright? Has any money from the BTA been paid to better together? Even if stickers were donated to them by BTA, that would be wrong? Do royalties need to be paid to anyone for its use?
http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1777345.stm
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2002/jan/23/advertising.marketingandpr
How do we educate those who are uneducated and tell them the truth?
Inverurie, no Herald anywhere (Morrisons, Tescos, Lidl, M&S, and the local newsagents all sold out). Kemnay (2 Co-ops and a Costcutter) sold out very early this morning apparently and in Newmachar the Co-op sold out.
I don’t think even the Herald will have anticipated this. They seem genuinely shocked at the reception given to their stance.
Plenty of people are giving out their phone number so that you can order a copy though: 0141 302 7300.
First time poster after lurking a long time. I have signed the BBC petition. Hope that it is now over 1000 signatories:-)
Sorry that bbc link i had up wont work. All i did was google ukok though, so easy to find. It was from 2002.
Having now had a chance to read why the Sunday Herald backs Independence, the stand out line for me was,
“The media should not speak with one voice”
I must have read that line half a dozen times before moving on.
slightly O/T , Lady Alba’s new song
//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sRr0HNsCa6k
scottish_skier says:
Comments disappearing…
Got this problem yesterday …bloody frustrating. Break your post into smaller parts (still no guarantees). Pain in the ass …but you at least get it up in stages.
I managed to get a Herald today; first time I have bought a paper in I don’t know how long. Had to go to the second shop though as the first was sold out apart from one copy behind the counter which someone had reserved. I got the last one in the next shop and had a chat with (foreign) chap behind the counter who seemed a bit bemused by the whole thing. Hope fully I left him thinking that it wouldn’t be the worst thing he could do to vote yes (though he didn’t appear like the voting kind to me). Saw the comments in the Sun as well but didn’t stoop to reading it! (No offence to any Sun readers.)
Jon Esquierdo
How do we educate those who are uneducated and tell them the truth?
To be honest …pretty difficult if it is entrenched in them to be Unionist. Personally, I’m hoping the mood of the nation as it swings more to ‘Yes’ will make them question their own beliefs. Sometimes, leaving someone to quietly think about it does the trick.
Snap with issues re comments, Im getting some errors as well when trying to refresh, time for another upgrade Rev?
Liked MacWhirters column today and his suggestion that Westminster was trying to destabilise Scotland and its elected government with the orchestrated attacks last week. Akin to how the colonial British Empire operated in the Middle East and Africa. Ouch!
O/T Now they really are getting desperate.
SNP ministers add a little spice to their lives with outings in tandoori taxis
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/473913/SNP-ministers-add-a-little-spice-to-their-lives-with-outings-in-tandoori-taxis
.
@Taysideterrier 5:53pm
Unfortunately that trademark has been “removed” from protection.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002291453
Good try though. 🙁
O/T
Just going back to my last comment about buying a Sunday Herald:
The chap who sold it to me (this was in Govan – I was down visiting from Aberdeen) said that a lot of people here (in Govan) were against independence because they were in fear of losing their jobs. This fear is something we Yes campaigners really need to address because I suspect that a good number of those types of No voters are reluctant No voters. I doubt it is just a shipyard thing in Govan (though aren’t BAE closing the Govan yard anyway?) but that will play a part I am sure.
I’ve no doubt this sort of crap will reinforce the fears of a lot of those who are intent on voting NO,but it will also anger many NO voters and cause them to question the drivel they’re being fed from London.I think,on balance,such stories are now a benefit to our cause.
I don’t get why this kind of stuff finds it’s way into a so-called newspaper. It’s entirely fictional, and a pretty poor effort at it too.
Well laddy’s n lasses am gonna finnish the week aff on a
smashin highnote,am gonna pour masel a gless of Irn Bru
in ah cocktail gless topped wie crossed cocktail swords
an two Marrano China Cherry’s.
Ah smash the Marrano Cheery’s oan the flair, drink the Irn
Bru,an stroke the rim o the cocktail gless.
Ahfur ffs ah furgoat tae buy wee umbrellas.
cocktail gless topped with crossed cocktail swords wie
Marrano China Cherry’s
The once respectable author Allan Massie…
Anyone participating in instilling needless fear in the electorate deserves no respect.
FFS BBC Scottish News, reporting on Sunday Herald conversion to YES, nice close up of front page and customer picking it up, a few secs of waffle, then the paper gets chucked back in the pile again.
Subliminal rejection of Sunday Herald stance, these people must be held to account when we win, stop paying your licence fee NOW!!!
Good day all round, eh?
On way to Ayr this afternoon, was overtaken by a wee grey car (maybe a Punto?) with Yes blue sticker on rear window, but he was going so fast it was pointless trying to flash him.
Spoke to a lovely couple in Boots in Ayr, about 3.40, the woman had a blue Yes badge on her scarf – if you see this, it was lovely talking to you both, albeit briefly, and did you clock the guy just down from you in that same aisle? He was totally earwigging and looked like he wanted to chat.
Had a wander in and out of five or six newsagents in Ayr town centre, and there was not a solitary SH to be had.
Finished Sunday Herald which is very good but it needs a big hitter in there, like the Reverend Campbell, if it wants to really get jiggy with the rest of the BBC and co slavering get Salmond win the ref media freak show.
Also has ad for Glasgow uni lecture by Professor John Kay who’s popular with the BBC for saying that its not going to make any difference economically to the man in the street so vote…
Greannach at 2.28
Jock Scot – How about Margaret Curran and Johann Lamont to sing a couple of the Cheeky Girls’ hits?
Excuse me Greannach while I get some kitchen roll to wipe the spray of tea off the screen – but then again you didn’t get the vision that came into my head when I got to the “cheeky girls” bit of your statement….argh ( I really must get some professional help)!
@Taysideterrier re my post at 6:30pm
Not sure it has been entirely removed from protection. Still trying to get my head round the IPO terminology.
This page http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/History/1/UK00002291453 suggests that it’s just been amended in terms of colour usage only a week or two back. So, either BT are using it illegally, or, (more interestingly) the British Tourism Authority is allowing it’s use outside the protected classes.
Not sure how, if at all, a legal challenge could be mounted by a third party.
Liam Halligan in The Telegraph is another predicting doom and destruction. He writes,
“..The combined balance sheets of the UK’s banks amount to a massive five times annual GDP. We have the most bloated banking sector of any major economy, making our public finances extremely vulnerable in the event of another ruinously expensive bail-out.
An independent Scotland, though, as S&P highlighted, would be even more financially top-heavy – with bank balance sheets totalling more than 12 times national income. When Iceland’s banks crippled the entire country, the equivalent figure was seven times.
Would London really be able to stand idly by if Scotland’s banks imploded, given the complex web of cultural and financial links between us, combined with international perceptions that we’re one nation? The risk to the rest of the UK’s financial markets and credit rating would simply be too great.
That’s the real danger of Scottish independence – what an economically literate comedian might call a massive “Moral McHazard”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/10806293/Liam-Halligan-Why-the-prospect-of-Scottish-independence-horrifies-me.html
JLT you could possibly have the answer, but I doubt it. We tend not to realise the extend of the under educated who will have a major say in the outcome of the referendum.
A rhetorical question arises …. Why would any sane person want to be ruled by a system which spouts such foul putrid lies continually!?
There is some nasty Unionist jiggery pokery going on in N Ireland at the moment methinks!!
Sorry that’s o/t
Iain I have a spare Sunday Herald if you want it?
Love this bit in the Telegraph piece “… combined with international perceptions that we’re one nation?”.
I doubt they’d have that perception any more!
Did anyone else pickup on the last two paras of the Scotsman peice on fishing? The UK government actually planned to ethnically cleanse Northern Ireland! What else have they been up to? We Already know about the sanctioned murder squads – but how deep does that hole go
@Liquid Lenny –
Thanks pal, but I’m sorted. Got two about half-eight this morning, then went back around sleepy Stevenston about an hour later and picked up another five.
And on another Political front, Recce Mogg Con MP
& a spokeswoman from UKIP, R Mogg MP proposing a allience
with UKIP not to stand for election against each other.
Strange bedfellows indeed. R Mogg MP did’nt do this
interview on his own behalf, big Davy Cameron bottle’s
gone. Hold on to power by any and all mean,s.
Sing up Lonny Donigan, piling up the agony,dain it in
style,keep up the pressure WINGERS.
anyone would think there never had been a Union. There seems to be an ugly undercurrent that wishes nothing more than the utter destruction of Scotland as a nation. It’s almost as if they have been waiting 300 years to re-ignite the old hatreds and kickstart the 1705 alien act.
Even if there was a no vote, nothing would ever be the same again. There is simply nothing they can do to build bridges with those who voted yes. And those that voted no will be regarded by the rUK as having done so for their giros.
The union is finished either way.
@Elizabeth
Liam Halligan got his erse wiped in the first post.
We all know now for sure what we are up against. It really doesn’t matter, we just keep plugging away. From where I’m standing, without exageration I can only see people having their eyes opened and moving steadily to the right side.
We can’t slacken and in fact have to start getting more “in yer face”. Now is the time to make your voice heard, be noticed. Just tell them like it is!
@ronnie anderson –
I suspect you’ll have seen this, but it’s always worth a watch, and newcomers should enjoy it.
Jacob Rees-Mogg in full flow – magnificent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-k4q-mbqNk
@jim thomson
Looks interesting, thanks for your efforts.
Also found this http://www.theguardian.com/media/2002/jan/23/marketingandpr.september112001
Which states the logo was created by advertising agency Abbott Mead Vickers BBDO.
Could be nothing but its an odd… well, probably unsurprising link between a gov dept and better together (another gov dept)
LizM says:
“First time poster after lurking a long time.”
Hi LizM.
Welcome aboard Wings. Didn’t hurt at all, did it? Yeah over 1k signs, good job there Ian. Not sure Patten will take any notice, but it will just be another little (cyber)gnat buzzing in his ear.
Did manage to get a Herald for posterity. Irks me a little that our buying of the Sunday will end up subsidising the daily, so kinda 6 to 1 against us. Still, we’re used to those sort of odds. And we’re winning.
Will be with the Yes mobile at the Turra show the morra. If any of you are there come in and have a tea or coffee. I’ll be wearing my daft hat!
@Taysideterrier
might be worth an FOI request to the tourism department asking if they have ever had need to exert their control over the trademark use and/or what their procedures are for protection of same.
No, not at all a mischievous request 😉
http://www.insights.org.uk/articleitem.aspx?title=UKOK+Campaign%3A+Window+of+Opportunity
Seems that the “ukok” campaign was dropped by the BTA after only 3 months.
Would still be interesting to see who owns the rights to it.
Hey boys – keep it quiet about the UKOK trademark, we’ve been hiding behind it for a few months now…
https://www.facebook.com/UnofficialUKOK?ref=tn_tnmn
@BTStK
cloaking device engaged …..
@BTStK
I lived on Bennie for a few years and looked forward to the days when we could see Kilda on the horizon. Generally 8/8 blue those days – fond memories
@BTStK
Well done guys. The genius of the ordinary punter on the Yes side can only leave me looking on in awe.
Love it.
LizM says
“First time poster after lurking a long time. I have signed the BBC petition. Hope that it is now over 1000 signatories:-)”
Finally!
where have you been?
we’ve been waiting for you, 🙂
welcome.
@john king –
Just noticed there that the last signatory to leave a comment on that petition is a ‘Sheena Wellington’ in Dundee.
I take it that’s THE Sheena W?
Sheena W?
whos that?
Oh the lack of cultural identity and national awareness in Scotland! Ian, sometimes I despair, John google – it might stop you making an a*** of yourself.
and I was so irritated, I missed a comma.
Oh thats Sheena Wellington 🙂
Well a mans a man for a that Paula 🙂
O/T UKIP freepost cancelled,someone posted them turds 🙂
I take it your still beating your head off a wall Ian?
O/T UKIP freepost cancelled,someone posted them turds
SHIT!
I’m sure Sheena’s posted here. (Try saying that five times, quickly. Then try saying it once after 3-litres of Frosty Jack.)
@john king –
Did they send them ‘turd-class’?!
John dear – what’s with the extra ‘s’ and a missing apostrophe? (9:52 and 54).
@john king –
re ‘Sheena’.
You just reminded me of one for off-topic. Come on over, we’re having a wee party, lying about on the carpet, bagging next to spin some fave tunes.
I had to walk a long way today to find a copy of The Herald on Sunday today and I would have walked further if I had not found one. Finding a mainstream newspaper that is not biased against the people of Scotland was like a breath of fresh air, and a great walk too. I don’t buy news papers but I intend to buy this one from now on.
I saw Sheena Wellington on there too. And when I signed, I got a message from Ian Brotherhood – wow! But it was only a robot impersonating him. Oh well.
I didn’t get a Herald today, having already decided to have a long lie before the news came through about the front page. I did check about teatime that they were all gone though, to make sure the village didn’t suffer the indignity of returning copies. A neighbour got one and is going to let me have a look.
Someone mentioned something that had occurred to me too. What the Sunday Herald really needs is Stu as a guest columnist.
I just read this on the BBC herald comments (before it closed):
I’m 17 and thanks to Salmond i can have my say in September. Alex tell us were rich country with the Scottish oil. what i’ve read in the press the oil will run dry in 30-40 years time, then what do we have. in 40years i’ll be in touching distance of my pension.. can scotland afford to pay for the increasing population of pension age people without the income from the oil.
Registered to respond, but alas comments now closed. Guess they dont have the manpower for moderation on a sunday, all those bright young things.
I remember when i was 17 and fretting, worrying and writing to the BBC about my pension and my concerns on the increasing age of the population.. My only memories at that age were being fixated on how to increase it! I think my outlook on life was a hell of a lot more positive than that, and i was a big believer in change, massively positive on positive change. Especially after careers guidance videos (during the miners strike) of how to live your life effectively, being unemployed, without annoying the employed or allowing the employed to see you. Walks in the woods, form your own band, go to the library. How many paid (in or nearing retirement) trolls are there out there….?
Did Massie actually write this? It reads like Harry Lauder on acid. These Unionist pimps are going to revealed as the cretinous, money grabbing, arse-kissing slaves they really are when the history of these times is written.
‘with a twist of his kilt’…. Christ…Douglas Hurd eat your liver out…’Scotch on the rocks’ 21st century style.
Still the same old patronising racist shite about the stupid violent drunken ‘Jocks’. Quislings one and all.
I had just turned 17 when Winnie Ewing won Hamilton and I was living in East Kilbride and my wee sister was at school in Hamilton. I had never heard of SNP until that point and what I read in the papers the following day made me think that independence was a good idea. Didn’t always have the chance to vote SNP but have done so when it has been an option. Nothing has changed for me since then and I remember when the Stone (regardless if it is the real one or not) was returned I knew then we were on our way. Onwards and upwards fellow Wingers.
I see our Derek is selective in his comments, as well as his memory.
So just in case you didn’t get it, Derek, and i’m sure you did, but its a hard one to swallow, and it doesn’t make summer. Your chummy media types were all so nice about it, fair and balanced all along, no agendas at all in their dealings and conversations with you, they all came across as friendly villager.
Not prepared to engage you in the robust independence debate you desired? Happy to listen to your opinions though ? Amiable, smiling, even?
You probably didn’t get the invite to “that” dinner party, with “that” crowd, Where are you now? That is corporate reality. Having worked with proper corporations, not luvey ones. And the core group of SMT decision makers that drive policy downwards and do it at a personal level into the org.
Have a good thunk, before showering again in the glory of the BBC and those standing above and relieving themselves upon you.
“You cant see what you should for the pleas” or piss perhaps.
@Morag –
That’s a scunner you didn’t get a copy.
You, of all Wingers, really shouldn’t be missing out, so if you don’t manage to somehow get a hold of your neighbour’s (?!) I’ve some spare, just let me know.
(Then again, if you’re going to Dundee, I could just give you one next Friday!)
You are worse than a no, you’re an apologist.
Go think for a while.
You can then return and apologise later.
NEITHER DID I IAN.
RE Sunday Herald, it was the only paper sold out in my local Tescos today @ 12:40- it has never sold our before!
out not our- doh!
Free at 63 at 11.08
Was your wee sister at John Ogilvie High in Hamilton? We had a lot of EK-ers there in 1967
@Paula Rose (11.27) –
Aye, very good! Just saw that there. We’re in Dick Emery territory now.
@ Dave McEwan Hill.
No, she was at Hamilton Academy.
Ian, I could have got up and gone for a copy if I’d wanted to. There’ll be other interesting papers. I’d had a busy week and I had to work Saturday morning, and I’ve been staying up way too late reading Wings, and I’d already decided that Sunday morning was my one big chance to sleep in like a teenager and I was going to do it. If my neighbour (who did get up to get it) doesn’t want to keep it, I’ll have it. If he does, then one of us has a copy.
I made a nice “YES” poster by photoshopping out all the Herald stuff from the Gray artwork, but for some bizarro-land reason I can’t upload it to my domain. Or I’d share it.
Oh, no, I won’t be at Dundee Friday, sorry. Big concert in Penicuik at the weekend, molto rehearsals. (Brahms Requiem, if anyone’s interested.)
@Morag –
No probs. I do hope the SH produces some kind of poster though. It’s just a shame about that intrusive ad – you’d think they’d have realised how momentous the cover is, that it’s bound to become iconic.
There is a version without the ad, online. Then I fiddled with that a bit and got rid of all the lettering, then put the YES back in, larger, and in the dark blue of the lion’s bagpipes rather than black.
Looks nice. It’s going in my window. If I can get FTP Explorer to play ball I’ll upload it somewhere people can share.
Of course there was Scotch On the Rocks by Douglas Hurd (yes that one) and Andrew Osmond, which was made into a TV series in the 1970s. And Kirsty Wark’s husband Alan Clements wrote a book called Rogue Nation in 2010. So there is a bit of history, as you point out, with the dystopian smear tactic.
I genuinely cannot bring myself to read through that rubbish. Massie has abandoned his more tempered tone and is sounding like just another feart unionist who has realised there is no preventing the inevitable. We should take that as a compliment.