A ball and a yard of grass
This morning’s Sunday Herald carries a typically sour and sneery quote from “Better Together” campaign director Blair McDougall in response to a Yes Scotland release of financial data relating to its campaign funding:
We now know why they have been hiding their donations for so long.”
Firstly, of course, he might want to revise that opening sentence, since his campaign’s representative Alex Johnstone MSP seems quite unable to stop criticising the Weirs, repeatedly painting them as gullible and dishonest dupes of the evil Alex Salmond.
But as usual, Mr McDougall’s obnoxious bluster also conceals a cynical misdirection.
The official No campaign has released two sets of donor details. The first claimed “almost ten thousand” small donors (actually 9,494) and the second identified 17,378 making “small” donations, defined in Electoral Commission rules as under £500. That’s a total of 26,872 and so does indeed technically count as “tens of thousands”.
Yes Scotland has also issued two tranches of donor data. The first claimed “over 7000” small donors (we can’t find a precise number) and today’s notes “more than 11,000” more, for a total of somewhere over 18,000.
As Yes Scotland only accepts donations from Scotland while “Better Together” trawls the entire UK for its cash – and doesn’t mind breaking the law in the process – it’s perhaps already rather remarkable that from 8.4% of the population Yes Scotland has had money from 70% as many people. (And if you were wondering, most of the No camp’s money HAS come from outside Scotland.)
Perhaps more to the point, the small donations to “Better Together” have totalled £391,831 while those to Yes Scotland add up to £585,000.
Blair McDougall’s assertion, then, that the No campaign has somehow attracted more support from ordinary members of the public is on rather shaky ground from the off (even leaving aside that the Weirs ARE ordinary members of the public who just happened to get lucky, rather than – for example – dodgy oil tycoons with links to brutal dictators and a history of bankrolling mass murdering war criminals).
But alert readers will have spotted something else missing from those figures.
Because while it’s generally accepted across the media that the No campaign is a highly centralised one with almost no presence outside of “Better Together” itself – hence the huge amount of hype accorded to any sort of organised No group outside of BT – the Yes movement is a far wider entity, comprising countless very independent entities united only by their desire for Scottish self-determination.
And those have sourced a not-inconsiderable sum of money – as the generous readers of this site will be only too aware, having provided a large chunk of it themselves. Just out of curiosity, let’s add some of it up.
Wings Over Scotland 2014 fundraiser: £110,717
Wings Over Scotland 2013 fundraiser: £33,014
Wings Over Scotland opinion polls, 2013: £11,822
Common Weal, autumn 2013: £25,584
Scotland Yet, autumn 2013: £20,320
Newsnet Scotland, December 2013: £13,801
National Collective, April 2013: £18,360
Bella Caledonia, December 2013: £13,480
Women For Independence, March 2014: £20,823
Alan Bissett, March 2014: £18,431
10,000 Flags For Yes, April 2014: £11,397
And those are just the ones we can think of which have gathered over £10,000. Lots of others have also collected smaller sums – Yes Borders took in £4,875 while Labour For Independence got to £7,031, Radical Independence made £4,001 and Yes Glasgow raised £5,465 to hold a debate in the city, which recently took place with three Yes and three No panellists despite “Better Together” refusing to participate.
Still more have been conducted privately – Newsnet Scotland did two for their “Duggy Dug” project and to hire a full-time staff writer, claiming total receipts in excess of £22,000. However, as those can’t be verified we won’t include them in the total.
That far-from-complete list of genuine grassroots fundraising, almost all of it comprising donations below £500, adds up to a breathtaking £319,121 since February 2013, when this site pioneered the concept in the context of the referendum.
That’s not too far behind the total raised from small donors by the entire official No campaign since its launch in June 2012. Indeed, on a pro-rata basis it’s more:
Grassroots unofficial Yes campaigns: £21,275 a month
Official “Better Together” campaign: £17,811 a month
Official Yes Scotland campaign: £25,435 a month
We can’t actually count the number of individual donors contributing to unofficial campaigns, because while Indiegogo (the aptly-named crowdfunding website of choice for Yes campaigners) does ennumerate them, there’s no way of knowing how many have donated to multiple campaigns, or indeed to official Yes causes.
But the facts are clear: counting small donors only, the Yes movement has been raising over £46,000 a month from a maximum donor base of perhaps 2 million ordinary Scots (since, of course, many Scottish people oppose independence), while its Unionist counterpart hasn’t been able to manage anywhere close to half of that figure despite having perhaps 30 million* or more pro-Union Britons to call on.
If we were Blair McDougall, we’re not sure we’d be drawing attention to that.
.
*The most recent polling we’ve seen said that 60% of English and Welsh people wanted to keep the Union. The adult population of the UK is a fraction over 50 million.
Of course if we were to count the value of benefits in kind, like the British Government calling on foreign governments to intervene on Better Togethers behalf, the skewed reporting in the Press and the partial interviewing on TV and radio it would be no contest.
After all it is he who pays the piper calls the tune but for them it doesn’t seem to be working this time. Oh dear, what a shame, lovely boy.
Business for Scotland have raised a fair whack as well have they not?
They need money to open all their ‘Better Together’ shops..oh wait….
Anyway they have the British State and the MSM to push their message
Excellent exposé of the truth.
I think a lot more should be made of the fact that YesScotland donations come from within Scotland. A challenge should be made to BetterTogether to reveal just how much of their financing is sourced outside Scotland.
If the reality is that mainly Scottish money is financing Yes, and mainly English money financing No, then the whole campaign takes on a different appearance!
“We now know why they have been hiding their donations for so long.”
Have they been hiding anything? As they have been “monstered” by the press in general, snd Johnstone in particular, there’s no reason they should make a press release, but it has not exactly been kept secret, has it?
I have no quarrel with your financial statistics, Stuart, but find it difficult categorising a couple with over £100 million in the bank as “ordinary.”
They’re a working class couple, now extraordinary!
Tax evasion is funding the No campaign.
One of the challenges of a TEFL teacher is to be able to describe the meaning of words to non-speakers of English. For ‘sour and sneery’ I would simply point to a picture of Blair McDougall. They would get it all too easily.
The Weir’s should say “so you want to smear us then here is another million to the campaign, up yours”. people would be less likely to say negative things about them if it ment helping the yes vote.
Just had a thought. Why are the cheerleaders for BT, I mean MSM and BBC specifically, allowed to do their thing without having to register as official campaigning bodies? I fail to see much difference between VoteNoBorders who have registered and the Scotsman who probably haven’t. It appears that if you don’t admit to being biased, you don’t have to bother registering!
“Business for Scotland have raised a fair whack as well have they not?”
Not a clue. I’m not aware of them having done a public fundraiser.
I think I must be close to that £500 limit by now, and talking to other Yes Scotland ‘activists’ on Saturday morning on the High St – I’m very typical.
I don’t have much money, just below the national average apparently – but I don’t waste any either. Contributions so far include donations to my local group of just over £300, with others of £15 – £25 to SCND, the JRF, LfI, Wings, NNS, SGP ….oh bugger – I’m over £500 !
So shoot me.
The very real success of the YES campaign is that the huge number of YES organisations all running now are generally self funding and are thus in receipt of funds which don’t appear in any official recording. Our own little YES shop in Dunoon has turned over about £7000 in its 15 month operation much of which has gone in funding YES giveaways and promoting public meetings.
o/T
A perceptive opinion from Auld Acquaintance about politicians who want no power – “time servers” as we know them
“Peculiarly for politicians they are also against themselves having any further powers, and the ability to actually make substantial change in the countries progress.
Can you imagine any set of politicians anywhere else in the world saying “No we don’t want to have any control over welfare, pensions, national defense, taxation, or the economy”?
Yet this is exactly what the Scottish MSPs of these parties are arguing against having.
Johann Lamont, Willie Rennie, and Ruth Davidson are all vehemently arguing against themselves having any more say in governing Scotland. Now when you think on it that way, actually they have a very good point! The very thought of any of that lot running our government is almost enough to make even me want to vote against Independence!
They all want to have the appearance of power without actually having responsibility for the real aspects of it, and they would rather just hand over that responsibility to their London masters, hence why you never see any real contribution from any of them when it comes to constitutional issues. They wait and rely on the Cleggs, Millibands and Camerons to make token visits up here to make proclamations and announcements about why we should not be Independent instead, before sodding off back to London on the next available flight out. “
“They’re a working class couple, now extraordinary!”
Your bank balance doesn’t change the PERSON you are. At least, ideally it doesn’t, and by all accounts it hasn’t done so to the Weirs.
“Why are the cheerleaders for BT, I mean MSM and BBC specifically, allowed to do their thing without having to register as official campaigning bodies?”
This is what the Electoral Commission told me:
“For the rules on newspapers you have to look at Schedule 4, Part 3 of the Scottish Independence Referendum Act on ‘referendum expenses’. Paragraph 11 (2) (d) exempts newspapers and broadcasters from incurring referendum expenditure:
“any expenses incurred in respect of the publication of any matter relating to the referendum (other than an advertisement) in—
(i) a newspaper or periodical,
(ii) a broadcast made by the British Broadcasting Corporation, or
(iii) a programme included in any service licensed under Part 1 or 3 of the Broadcasting Act 1990 or Part 1 or 2 of the Broadcasting Act 1996”.”
Mr McDougall’s comments have just driven me to go on to Yes Scotland’s website and make a donation. Like so much BT does, it has been totally counter-productive. I don’t actually have very much money, and I am more than a little worried about my financial future, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see my country regain its rightful place among the nations.
I have also donated to Scot Goes Pop and Wings this morning, all thanks to Mr McDougall. I’m sure he’ll be pleased.
Chic McGregor says:
Business for Scotland have raised a fair whack as well have they not?
1900 members at £120 each makes £228,000.
Very good work Rev as ever.
Just heard Blair apologist John McTernan dismissing the 1,000+ pages of Westminster-generated ‘Better Together’ papers as irrelevant – because they’re all ‘factual’ !! He no doubt considers the Business, Innovation and Skills funding of the NEISR’s research and the 30+ papers produced by the IFS as irrelevant too.
But Vince Cable’s department is spending millions funding those ‘you’re all gonna suffer’ papers, with the 6 ‘Research Fellows’ hired by the IFS for it’s ‘Scotland and UK’ project alone costing £1.3 million !
There’s a very good reason Westminster has refused FOI requests to publish the costs to the taxpayer of Better Together Westminster Branch …..
The point about them being ordinary is valid – most people with very large amounts of money to spend on political causes are usually beholden to whatever situation made them rich. The Weirs are an exception to that.
I’m going to donate a tenner to the Hot air balloon fund raiser.Might also send a tenner off to The Orange Order to help pay for some new tunes for their Embra gig.
Don’t forget Radical Independence who have run two campaigns I think. I remember donating to one on Indiegogo. But like everyone else I’ve donated to so many different ones I can’t remember where I’m at. Did two yesterday and can’t think who they were.
I think I am nearly donated out. I can’t afford too much as I’m economically inactive otherwise would donate more.
@Grouse Beater I think terming the Weirs ordinary is to imply that they are not business tycoons with vested interests in keeping Scotland tied down by Westminster. They have not made the donation expecting a nice wee contract at Faslane in a couple of years.
Your bank balance doesn’t change the PERSON you are.
I didn’t suggest a change of personality, though moving to a bigger home and buying a more expensive car than the last might signify some kind of alteration of outlook in the value of possessions.
You state they’re “ordinary.” They are far from ordinary. People who know them might well still regard them as a fine, honest couple, but now they will see them as a couple with a ton of money.
My near neighbour, J K Rowling, is an “ordinary” person …. but there ordinary ends.
oops – missed the oblique again – sorry, Stuart.
Eric D says:
“There’s a very good reason Westminster has refused FOI requests to publish the costs to the taxpayer of Better Together Westminster Branch …..”
You betcha Dorice. It makes me very angry that we are being forced to subsidise the campaign against us. That includes the state propaganda broadcaster.
Great deconstruction again Rev. Facts are great aren’t they?
Handclapping
Yes, the value of deliberate BBC misinformation and Brit establishment owned press bias is incalculable. If the fifty per cent who are still believing it could see the lies we’re fed daily we’d win this by miles.
Great work rev as usual.
I widney gie the BT rogues the fluff oot oh my belly button.
Are purchases from the Yes Scotland shop counted as trading rather than a donation?
Add to all of that the uncounted money spent by individual activists for campaigning, organised events, etc. The willingness to put hand in pocket, donate time and effort, purchase promotional materials, etc. plus donating to fund-raising efforts for other groups and projects.
People in Scotland are funding a proposal in which they totally believe. I doubt that belief in Westminster comes into it for many no voters, just fear of change and lack of vision; harder to put your hand in your pocket for negativity.
How very strange …one source!
I, for one, know that I have donated several times to the cause, as have several others on this site. Sure, the Weirs have donated more than we could have ever asked for, but if I had won £160 million pounds, then I would have punted several million to the cause too. In fact, every grassroots campaign that is published on this site, would have had every cause paid for!
If I was Blair, I would be more concerned; not only about his own funds sources, but at the very thought that the nutters are coming out of the woodwork. BT’s worst nightmare! The Orange Order marching in the heart of the Capital. With the thought of the drunks, hooliganism, bigotry, and probably even racism on the cards, then this is a recipe for disaster. After all, if you’re a lodge member; what better excuse for a second day out after the glorious 12th of July, and nowhere better, than to terrorise the rather-unionist city of Edinburgh. It couldn’t be more hilarious to a non-Unionist.
So …what churches in the heart of the city, are these clowns going to bang their drums, shout vile abuse, and slander just about every Scot in the land. I have no doubt the Catholic churches will be a high priority. Will the Episcopalian churches be next. They are not quite Protestant even though they say they are. They still have priests and they still follow certain customs. After that …the Mosques, maybe?
So, the Orange Order will march for Unionism while attacking every non-Presbyterian church or faith building on the way; denouncing Catholics; attacking other faiths; shouting possibly at non-whites…
Yep …Better Together …………….my arse!
After Zara’s Nuclear Submarine video every time I see Blair’s name I hear that bloody tuba 🙂
Stu you make a very good point. Just at the turn of the year the various Facebook Better Together types were making much of that fact that Yes was broke and that the Yes campaign would run out of steam by March. Now they are bitching the face off anyone that will listen that Yes are rolling in dosh and will outspend poor Better Together 3:1
The same Bitter contingent used to also say that places like Wings were a blight on the debate and that we were unloved by all sides. Now that money is an issue and we are well funded I have seen the tune change. We are now an SNP front according to some.
I predict that Blair’s next line will be that Wings and Bella and Radical Independence and Newsnet etc, should be closed because we are tentacles of the SNP octopus.
Stu, I’m sorry but your figures for the No campaign are wrong – you’re ignoring the donations from most households in the UK in the form of the BBC licence fee.
Actually Grouse Beater, I would agree with you, I knew the person who JK bought out to aquire her Edinburgh House. This person knew her before she made a load of dosh. Once she made the money she wanted the entire house for herself, I believe she rented the upper storey, so she bought this person out. I would say generously enough as this person was able to purchase a very nice house indeed.
On the subject of the Weirs, they may have come into money, they may have had to move out of the part of society that they were comfortable in but they were long settled in their ideas and decency for it not to have changed them.
And perhaps a wee plug today amongst the generous Wings readers for James Kelly who is looking for some support to help keep his ‘Scot goes Pop’ blog going. He does fine work in analysing polls and trends.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/
I have no connection with him at all, except that I have long admired his work, and have given him some support along with several other causes (including the Rev)
In fact, when you think about it, you just know that the Edinburgh Council will be bricking themselves on this one.
If they let the Orange Order march in the Capital, then they know that there is a serious chance of trouble, as well, as pushing the ‘Yes’ cause through the roof just days before the vote if the Unionist clowns lose the plot.
And because of that, I just have this inkling that the March will not happen at all; that the Council will ban such a massive parade. Plus …it will still be in the height of tourism season, and possibly even the Edinburgh Festival. Yep, I’m sure the Edinburgh Fathers will want the tourists to see this little aspect of Scottish culture.
I have just perused the Sunday Herald and would say that it was not only the Weirs in receipt of the bitterness. The article on the hacked e-mails also received the same.
The Letters page how can I put it, YES won. BT lost good time with the I am giving up the Sunday Herald letters.Well there are plenty of newspapers for those sort.
“1900 members at £120 each makes £228,000.”
Are all of their members paid up “stakeholder” members, though?
Nae mention of thae SNP swine.
Oh, haud oan, I’ve given them a fair few bob meslf.
All YES voters are legally obliged to pay for BBC in Scotland anti independence pressure AND the colossal amount of vote NO or else stuff pouring out of Westminster courtesy of British Civil Service.
UKOK civil service pride themselves on their impartiality, then we get top civil service twit piling in with his no sterling share for Scotland because it’s his “duty.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26958460
Sir Nicholas Macpherson said he put his name to the advice because the Scottish government were “casting aspersions on the UK government’s integrity”.
Or “I’m a not impartial and neither is my Civil Service, so vote no”
Yes South Annandale raised @£1400 at a Race Night, ordinary folk raising money for a grassroots campaign, I know Yes Dumfries and Yes Annandale (Lockerbie) had similar events. I’d be astonished if there wasn’t something similar in every Yes group across the country. These local fundraisers will surely take the amount raised to a substantial six figured sum.
What Blair McDougall and many fail to recognise that there is a grass roots campaign in this country the likes that has never been seen before. The funding is a side show, I have found myself knocking on the doors to canvass, there are so many of us that have never done anything like this – money isn’t needed, all we need is drive, committment and belief. It is ordinary people and not politicians nor is it money that will win this campaign.
Yesterday we had a Super Saturday in Annan, a a ‘conservative’ estimate would be that more than 50% of the group are labour supporters. Not a single councillor or politician was in the sixty strong group. The battle is slowly being won by ordinary people who care and want to structure a country that we can be proud of, a country that will be the envy of many. This in spite of the ‘unfunded’ propoganda machine that is the MSM / BBC.
Why don`t the arbiters of Freedom take these matters of Unfair Advantage e.g. the MSM and the beeb —to the European Court of Human Rights when they use public funds to SKEW AN AGREED issue.
Agreed by westminster and Holyrood.
The Beeb is using my money to defeat my lifelong wish for Independence by deploying my licence fee versus me.
“Johann Lamont, Willie Rennie, and Ruth Davidson are all vehemently arguing against themselves having any more say in governing Scotland. Now when you think on it that way, actually they have a very good point! The very thought of any of that lot running our government is almost enough to make even me want to vote against Independence!”
Nice one Dave McEwan Hill! This made me laugh!!
Have just donated to “Scot goes Pop” – am I supposed to be keeping a list so I don’t exceed £500? As with David above I’m an admirer of James Kelly’s work. What an absolute tube McDougall is! I’m embarrassed for our nation when I read the absolute S…e he comes out with!
Also a wee plug to help the Yes Scotland shop in Stirling which depends on public donations to keep it going.
http://igg.me/at/Help-Scotland-Vote-Yes/x
The shop has no financial help from Yes Scotland although it does sell a range of their merchandise and it is staffed entirely by volunteers.
“Me and my mates have managed to raise hundreds of thousands; being spent daily on the Yes Campaign – and I’m telling no-one. More than happy to spend the first six months of an Independent Scotland in jail for breaching any rules”
Will be well worth it.
See you on the other side
Weir doing it for Scotland.
Mon the Weirs xx
Ref “Sir Nicholas Macpherson” above , it occurred to me that I don’t know if we will still be having/awarding these titles in an Independent Scotland . Can anyone clarify?
jlt
Lots of interesting decisions to be made regarding the proposed Orange walk. Will BT send a contingent of its supporters to join their comrades against independence–say some Labour Councillors from Lanarkshire? If not why not–remember it’s Better TOGETHER so surely they would want to show their allegiance to the Union?
Will Blair McD proudly march wih these uber-unionists? If not why not?
Etc.
O/T
Does anyone else find it a bit odd that Dennis Healey in his ?frank magazine interview didn’t think it was of any importance to mention that there was at least one other oil paper.
Not so frank as we believed at the time it seems and who knows there may be more
From Sunday Times
THE scientist dubbed “the father of the cloud”, whose pioneering work made Facebook, Google and Amazon possible, has claimed Scotland could thrive under independence.
Professor Stuart Parkin said it was possible for small independent nations the size of Scotland to flourish.
The British physicist spoke to The Sunday Times last week as he collected the Millennium technology prize in Finland for his work on data storage, which has enabled cloud computing, social media, online streaming and the sharing of music and films.
Parkin, a visiting professor at Stanford University, said: “I think it [independence] might be good. I think having more independence is good.”
Read somewhere the Weir’s have donated another 2.5 million bawbees !!
Attacking them was a bit of an own goal it seems..haha
How exciting to be on topic for a change. Would you generous Wings readers please help Yes Bo’ness with our appeal to raise funds to open a Yes campaign hub in the town/ We have a fairly modest funding target of only £1500 and it would be great to be able to reach it soon. Here’s a link – all donations very welcome. Thanks.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-bo-ness-shop/x/2349156
Bill McLean,
I don’t think you need to bother as James Kelly’s site won’t be spending anywhere near £10,000 and therefore does not need to register as a registered campaigner. Also his site is more of a comment site I would doubt if blogs would need to register.
According to the Herald a new poll puts No well ahead,anyone believe that?
Sorry forgot to add the link
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/latest-poll-yes-34-no-54-undecided-12.1399808292
Anyone seen the BT facebook page.
They are claiming the PSO poll shows a rise for No. Even have a wee graphic which notes the poll was for the Sunday Mail.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/s403x403/10277425_659165317500446_1828908903128195165_n.jpg
Yet the Sunday Mail talks about a boost for Yes as per Prof C.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/sunday-mail-opinion-poll-gap-3525617
They’re comparing two totally different polls, both of which show record narrowing of gaps and claiming a boost for No.
I believe they’ve now lost it.
A good deconstruction Stu, and as David McEwan Hill above rightly points out EVERY Yes local group fund all their activity. Hire of rooms, leaflets, hire of halls, advertising, purchase (yes purchase!) all our Yes badges,flags, leaflets, umbrellas, bags, hi-viz vests, etc, all from the pockets of local Yes donors, who in most cases, have already donated to Wings, Newsnet Bella, ETC.
We dont get a penny from the official Yes campaign.
And every time someone mentions another good pro-indy cause on here like https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scotland-yet-post-production-and-distribution/x/2347796#activity, another few £s are added, as since I mentioned this one on here a few days ago, over £1000 has been added
So who says ordinary people are not funding this campaign?
I seem to recall that the Brothers who own the “Scotsman” shielded their wealth from taxation from their TAX HAVEN hideaway on the island of Sacre.
When they can pay but won`t pay, why are Scots paying for a t.v. licence of extreme bias when Sept. may produce a majority of t.v. licence payers who have voted for Independence and versus B.B.C. Scotland`s opposing agenda.
Where is the Public Accounts Committee or the BROADCASTING OMBUDSMAN.
I think this is mostly a bad case of sour grapes from McDougall.
His campaign is funded by billionaires both in the UK and abroad. And has the entire resources of the Westminster government to call on, including the massive propaganda production and broadcast machine that is the mainstream media.
Yet despite all these resources, they’re still getting a regular kick in the nuts (metaphorically speaking!) from a campaign that relies mostly on just ordinary folks working together and spreading the word on the streets.
With a message that consists of nothing more spectacular than simply telling people the truth. (Though in today’s society, that’s pretty unusual!)
Hopefully him and Darling will do little more than just whine and complain about how hard done by they all are right up to the 18th. Then we probably won’t hear from them again.
Can’t wait! 😀
I should have added above.
And happy to do so!
Scottish Skier
I think BT are a wee bit desperate. They have been grasping at straws for weeks and after their so called relaunch all their main players seem to have gone on an extended break.
Doug McG 12.57
Ref titles and honours. I would never trust anyone with Lord or Sir before their name. As far as I know the only SNP MP to be offered a Lordship was Donald Stewart ( now deceased ) who was MP for the Western Isles and he, much to his credit refused it.
Their was a sustained campaign a few years ago for Sean Connery to be awarded a knighthood which he was given subsequently. This would indicate that not all nationalists are opposed to “honours”.
I suppose the matter would be for a future independent Scottish Parliament to decide.
There was a couple of comments on the previous thread about a poll which showed No well ahead of Yes.
I saw a comment in the Sunday Herald from a reader who had taken part in the poll and they said:
“Erin DuBois • 24 minutes ago
I took part in that poll and at no time were we asked about independence. It asked about voting intentions at the next Westminster elections, this is at worst disingenuous, but possibly something much more sinister.”
I didn’t see the poll questions so can’t verify but others might.
scotish_skier
Thank goodness you’re about, cos I have a wee theory about MSM, BBC Scotland and STV and their relationship with polling companies.
I have started to notice that ALL of them collude to put out some bullshit scare story whenever a polling company is going to be asking the Scottish public questions related to Scottish Independence.
The shit that the whole of the MSM ran with on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday was about waiting times in A&E depts. Now in the end it was a bit of a non-story, but it did coincide with polling companies asking their questions on Scottish Independence.
Because as well as the Sunday Mail poll, I think Yougov were also asking referendum questions at the end of last week.
We always thought that BBC Scotland and MSM were running these scare stories to aide wee Johann at FMQs, but I think that they have had a different reason all along.
It was to keep the poll results as low as they could get them.
On the missing MORI poll. Herald letter:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnWwIF4IMAAEg9F.jpg
Great piece Stu,
I read that in the Sunday Herald and it pissed me off. Great to have the facts presented as you do. O/T The work you did getting the jump on the Nob orders before the story broke was simply inspired. I’d told a lot of people about it. When the story broke on the bbc, we converted a few more to the side.
You’re throwing off the shackles of lies and spin.
I remember chatting with a Russian girl in America on my travels and she was giving a very different account of the Russian invasion of Georgia. I brought up propaganda and corruption in the Russian press, she didn’t bat an eyelid in returning the sentiment. How foolish i was to believe in the neutrality of the bbc(I was never truly that naive to not be aware of bias etc, however, the extent of the corruption defies belief).
I’ve since written to her to apologise for my misunderstanding.
So thanks to you and to all contributors on here, including the community.
cheers
Is there a donations official legal CUT-OFF date!
Keep on donating.
I’m awa oot tae git ma Sunday Herald.
Keep on buying.
Again we can’t thank enough and very well done the WEIR’s. They will go down in history as Great Scots. We couldn’t do it without them. They need to be honoured with more than a road, street named after them, its must be at least a Boulevard, Promenade!
ps. Trying to use my native tongue, Scots.
Its been washed out of me under 50years British rule.
@caz-m
I wouldn’t be surprised if an ICM or panelbase poll suddenly appears in the next day or two.
Two can play at the poll game.
Nana Smith.
I saw a comment in the Sunday Herald from a reader who said:
“I took part in that poll and at no time were we asked about independence. It asked about voting intentions at the next Westminster elections, this is at worst disingenuous, but possibly something much more sinister.”
Just donated a modest £1 to three good Yes causes. As they say, if everybody could chip in a quid…
The balloon appeal, publicised in the Sunday Herald today, seems to be dying a death, only £1,188 raised out of the £31,000 needed and only 41 funders. Just 18 hours to go so can’t even see him getting to 10%.
Only two heralds left in my local paper shop at 12:30 Asked owner how many he received and he said that a lot of the papers were short this week and he had not worked out if he had received less Herald’s than normal.
Funny all these problems with distribution last week and this week. Co-incidence or what?
Caz-M Well spotted.
23 sept 2013
One Nation / Labour Conference
Johann Lamont described nationalism as “a virus . . . that never achieved anything” in a phrase that appeared to allude to the European 20th century fascist movement.
Sunday Politics 11 may 2014
douglas alexander
15 mins 35 secs
“national champions in a dynamic economy”
Is he saying British Nationals?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b042bc04/Sunday_Politics_West_11_05_2014/
I have spent around £150 on various indy organisations in the last few months so I”ve decided to set up my own organisation Bigfoots for Independence. Please send me your money, it will enable me to emigrate back to Canada in the event of a No vote.
P.S. Is Bigfoots the correct plural for Bigfoot ?.
And then of course you have local campaigns, where people put a couple of coins in a bucket to help pay for the hire of the hall, etc. Whilst you can’t possibly quantify that, I’m sure that would amount to a not negligible total.
To summarise on the point I was making regarding the timing of bullshit media stories and polling companies asking referendum questions.
The “joke” used to be that we knew what wee Johann was going to scream about at FMQs because Newsnight Scotland ran with it on the Wednesday night and GMS on the Thursday morning.
But I think we can now say that the reason ALL of the media are running with bullshit stories at the exact same time is because there must be a polling company about to be asking questions on Scottish Independence.
sorry 16-54 secs
If you’re up for ‘Counting House 2 – The Return’ (nice one Cactus!) on May 30th, please mosey on over to Off-topic and declare interest so I can get this list going. Five regulars up for it so far…
Talking about Better Together grasping at straws I see that the Sunday Herald has an article about the accessing of Yes emails and concludes that there was an individual involved and that some sort of demand was made. The police were unable to track the individual and the access seems to have been made from abroad.
Better Together read this as there was no hacking attempt. I think this is a little far fetched. The fact that the individual said that they did not hack, they got in because security was poor is a moot point. That was an argument that the US refused to take on board in relation to Gary MacKinnon.
The question remains open, who was this individual and what if any was the connection to Better Together or indeed UK intelligence?
Despite the headline in the Herald that there was access I fully expect to see the Bitter Ones peddle their own spin on this.
If I can borrow a phrase from a T.V. advert here, “Mr snooty pants has got his knickers in a twist!”
I’d hate to have to go to *ahem* work in Better Together H.Q. every day, it must be an awful feeling. I mean:
1) Knowing that you’re working for the losing side.
2) Knowing that your bosses are the most ignorant and jealous individuals known to man.
3) Knowing that the money B.T. have raised is constantly squashed by your opponents.
4) Knowing your organisation is a laughing stock
5) Knowing your bosses will flat out lie rather than admit they’re wrong
6) Dreading the next days news on the internet cause you just know there will be more bad news
So it goes on.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
“1900 members at £120 each makes £228,000.”
Are all of their members paid up “stakeholder” members, though?
As a stakeholder member myself, I hadn’t realised there was any other kind. But I see on the website you can join merely by signing the declaration. So I imagine a lot of members aren’t stakeholder members. Oh well.
@Lesley-Anne
L-A,
I don’t think that particularly bothers Blair MacD.
Remember what he said in answer to why he was doing it? : “it pays the mortgage”.
O/T
Bunter mentioned on the last post the good ship GeeBee.
I have heard from a good source that next year’s British
representative for the Eurovision Song Contest will be non other than that famous group, the “Gee Bees”,
And they will be singing that worldwide hit “Tragedy”.
I don’t think that was Blair McD think that was someone else, maybe Rob Shorthouse?
The truth is that we have all made quite a number of contributions, yet more and more good causes are rising up as the YES numbers are growing.
In a perfect world we would hope all are going to be fully funded,however, because of this some are unlikely to raise all their needs just for this reason.
The amounts contributed are unlikely to be as good as the first wave, all we can do is what we can and spread our contributions as wide as we can, albeit, a lower amount in order to give to as many as possible to an ever growing Yes community.
If, for the sake of argument, we accepted that the momentum for a yes vote has slowed in the last couple of weeks could that conceivably be related to the fact that Darling et al have shut their mouths lately?
HandandShrimp says:
The fact that the individual said that they did not hack, they got in because security was poor is a moot point.
The question remains open, who was this individual and what if any was the connection to Better Together or indeed UK intelligence?
Security? My understanding was that the much covered newspaper ‘phone hacking’, with its ongoing legal proceedings, only occured because the owners of the phones had no pin on their voicemail. It was so easy, those doing the hacking didn’t feel it was even carrying out illegal hacking!
So, since when did poor security make the crime any less?
If it was hacking, then it shouldn’t be ignored.
@HandandShrimp
Very good questions that need answering. Well done! Anything to do with Westminster/establishment is corrupt and deceitful. That includes BT. In my opinion.
O/T but I’ve just watched the end of the Spanish GP and note that it was won by Englishman Lewis Hamilton, whilst Andy Murray is, of course, British.
David says:
And perhaps a wee plug today amongst the generous Wings readers for James Kelly who is looking for some support to help keep his ‘Scot goes Pop’ blog going. He does fine work in analysing polls and trends.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/
Well said David.
Scot goes Pop is truly excellent source for polling and other scottish political analysis.
It’s heartening and very encouraging to see so many kind and big-hearted people helping such a worthy cause along with the always generous Wings readers joining in.
@scottish_skier says
Can Polling companies withhold awkard results from polls commisioned if the results dont fit with what client is looking for ??
Is this normal practice ?
So if an ‘unfavourable’ YES surge were to surprisingly occur in results, it could just be binned and withheld from the public ?
Stu – loving the return of the wee blue shift arrows !!
gordoz says:
Stu – loving the return of the wee blue shift arrows !!
Seconded!
I’ve just noticed them…DOH! 😛
Free sports streaming link off-topic
Meanwhile back to playing with newish up/ down blue button.
Wheeeeeeee!
Just rereading this again, much more YES funding raised in Scotland from 5.3 million people than BetterTogether can raise from 10 x the number of people in England, all makes that massive BBC puff for http://www.nob.orders.com even more outrageous.
Blair MacDougal is a blatant liar but Gavin Esler completely destroyed his cred doing that BetterTogether BBC nightmare but why did he do it though? I was only obeying orders, from Lord Patin maybe.
TF for the Blue button.
Needed it on most threads when using iPad
Ooooft Rev – clinical funding post Sir.
Blair MacDougall has now responded to the grass roots funding post on twitter via an activist.
“Our foundation movement is based on an artifical surface of ‘ground swell’ support, not disimilar to Astroturf”
BT special support aide ‘Maboza Raken’
Can Polling companies withhold awkward results from polls commissioned if the results dont fit with what client is looking for
Of course. If the poll has been commissioned by someone, e.g. Better Together, it’s up to BT whether to publish; they paid for it. Likewise if the pollster just did a poll themselves which they often do there no rules that they must release it (although they’d have no real reason to withhold).
BPC rules do say that a pollster must release tabulated data /methodology details if the results of a poll are published in the media. Today’s poll (Sunday Mail) however comes from a market research company which is not a BPC member so doesn’t need to release tables/methodology.
I have just done my own poll as per the Sunday Mail Progressive Scottish Opinion one. Results are 54% Yes / 34% No. Like PSO, I’m not a member of the BPC so you’ll just have to trust me 😉
Cmon tell us when this blue down and up button appeared?
s_s, we’re still 20 points behind?
@scottish_skier
Cheers for the heads up.
Should say yourself and ‘James Kelly’ (Not useless MP) are about as near as I get to trusting opinion polls anyway 🙂
Wasn’t there something from Ivan McKee about a funded bike ride which exceeded expectations? or was that not specific to BFS?
s_s, we’re still 20 points behind?
Not a chance. Poll of polls by Prof. C has just ~1 (5%) in 20 people needed to change their minds and parity will be reached / Yes will go ahead.
And that’s very conservative with outliers such as Yougov, MORI, PSO included which have obvious methodology issues which favour No.
There’s also lots of evidence that the No is very soft, for example, polls only give at best 1/3 saying they are definite No. That’s your people who feel fairly or strongly British in the main.
I’m still sticking with a result like Q2 1997. However, that doesn’t mean people should sit back. Part of what will generate that result is the massive, notably grass-roots, campaign to get it…
Seen the Indy ballon fund raiser in the Sunday Herald, made my donation to that, seems a brilliant idea, just google Yes Indy ballon
Speed reader Darling must of had blue buttons on his copy of the White paper.
Right, if this IPSOS MORI poll was commissioned by the Cabinet Office, surely that means it and it’s results are covered by the Freedom of Information Act?
Just noticed the return of the up/down buttons there.
They’re fun to play with, if a little dizzying. Like getting into a lift and pressing every button on the panel just to annoy everyone…
“Stu – loving the return of the wee blue shift arrows !!”
Not strictly a return – they’re brand new arrows, from a new scroll plugin someone’s just released.
s_s, thanks Mate, feel a whole better now………regards,
Stu, could we have a blue pause button as well?
OK. Got my Sunday Herald, now only 1 left in Duthie shop. Its dreich up here today.
Now have Alistair Gray’s larger magnificent poster.
I would be buying more Scottish newpapers if they were impartial and unbiased. Its their financial loss.
ps. Last week Sunday Herald sold 32,500 newspapers and 75,000 online hits.
Lets keep this up and outdo it, this week!
pps. I would encourage Scottish Government to use the Sunday Herald as official publication, used to inform the Scots Nation.
After reading this I had the sudden urge to contribute to the pro-Yes campaign, so I chose one site out of many and I did!
Thank you to all contributors to the debate who I haven’t sent a donation to today. I wish I could fund you all.
Horseboy says ‘ps. Last week Sunday Herald sold 32,500 newspapers and 75,000 online hits.’
Do we know how much of an increase this represents on their usual Sunday sales/web hits?
Only one copy of SH, which I bought, in corner shop. Went down to Scotmid and they still had @ dozen, but shop was empty. Maybe more a reflection on S-M than the SH?
@TJenny
I’m afraid I have nothing to do with the Co-op/Scotmid due to their continued support of Labour.
That and the fact that you’d be hard pushed to find any details on them being one of the largest political parties in Westminster with many Labour MPs being joint Co-Op ones as well.
I want open and transparent democracy. That’s another reason I’ll be voting yes.
I’ve been wondering what had happened to that Ipsos Mori poll. My son was one of the participants and we’ve been looking out for its publication. Guess it’s not going to see the light of day then.
The Yes balloon fundraiser seems to be struggling a bit. All the fundraisers mentioned here are great causes but if anyone wants to give this a wee boost, here’s the link (hope I’ve got the linking right!)
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/737525
@chicmcgregor
The bike fundraiser is still going and has a bit to go to reach the target. Postman Mark Coburn is cycling from Rome to Glasgow, just reached the half way mark of his 1421 miles. Here’s the link. Funds for local groups.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rome-to-home-1421-miles-on-a-bike-for-yes
Is this not the same idiot who was recently whining that Yes would be able to out purchase advertising and other campaign material compared by BT by 2:1?
I wonder how the London based ‘No Borders’, Tory funded, PR Company run campaign’s £150,000 is to be counted – if, of course, they ever raise it.
On the point about polls
My ongoing FB watch which I started in October last year
continues to show a steady increase in support for yes, despite some dips along the way, with Yes having a lead of 11.35% as of today (in October the lead was a slim 4.4%)
It is only indicative, but I think is a good bellwether of direction of support
Truth
FOI request on the ipsos mori poll sounds like a good idea – although they will not be able to conceal all subsequent positive polls and this one will be overtaken by future polls. Would be great to prise it from them. It’s apparent suppression must mean parity or a lead for Yes. Brave of the sunday herald letter writer to highlight it.
I found the hands-wringing from the seemingly diehard bo Sunday Herald readers a little unbelievable seeing as the paper has been pro-independence leaning for ages.
It would be interesting to know how many people actually cancelled subscriptions. Certainly Calumny Mcdonald asserts “The reason I am writing is to inform you that I have cancelled my delivery of the Sunday Herald after decades of loyal readership”.
I can remember it’s launch back in 1999!
Should read diehard NO Sunday Herald readers… that vast demographic!
While we are on about funding, please consider making a donation for the post-production and distribution costs for the Scotland Yet movie.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scotland-yet-post-production-and-distribution
If you haven’t seen it already, you can view the excellent Scotland Yet movie trailer here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaC3TAxC7fA
You can make a donation on the indiegogo website and get qualify to get sent a DVD of the movie, or the soundtrack CD.
I have just checked online It is the Herald online site.It says so at the top.It is not the Sunday Herald online site
The Unionists – Alistair Darling – is spending £Millions of taxpayers monies to fund Grants for Uni Depts – Curtice – skewed polling activities. All in it together wasting taxpayers monies.
There was a report the Sunday Herald sales were 20,000? If that is correct, 32,500 represents a 30% increase. With many more reading it within households.
@ Helena
I would agree with you
Thank you. I didn’t set out to define the Weir’s in any way, only what “ordinary” meant in this instance.
People who acquire lots of money can break free from the daily humdrum ordinariness of life – as you imply with the Rowling story.
If by ordinary one means conventional, well, perhaps.
I’ve the same self-description on my blog though vocation and projects and travel has friends and acquaintances see me as anything but ordinary.
The Weirs are exceptional to have made the donations they did, even if any gap in their bank account is filled by interest accrued in a very short time. Quite frankly, I don’t know what the cause of Scotland’s democracy would have done without their Lottery win – a ton of irony in it being the European Lottery – because we’re up against the entire forces of the British establishment, Westminster, Whitehall, and the mass ranks of UK corporate business.
while on the subject of groups that are supposedly speaking in behalf of so many ordinary people, I was quite annoyed by the BBC story today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27363928 with the Association of Ukrainians in GB demanding apologies from Alex Salmond. My Ukrainian wife, who mixes with lots of Ukrainians (and other people who know Russian), is not a member, and neither is anyone she knows from Ukraine. Who exactly is this group speaking on behalf of???
@crisiscult – Who exactly is this group speaking on behalf of??? – Better Together I think.
Couldn’t believe it when it this non-story was run on Disreporting Scotland.
To “Kenny”, who has been trying to post on this thread: when you have a valid point to make, as you do about the Herald, that’s fine.
If, however, you attach that point to a load of insulting abuse you’ll be classed as a troll and deleted, because while we welcome debate here we don’t tolerate trolling from people who just want to turn threads into a slanging match. Clear?
@crisiscult – Just out of curiosity what does your wife think of the reporting of the Ukranian crisis, was she disappointed at the FM’s remarks in GQ?
@croompenstein
my wife shrugged her shoulders and thought it was pretty meaningless what he said. My wife is half Russian half Ukrainian. She agrees he has restored Russian pride which took a huge dent in the 1990s. She’s pretty angry about what’s happening in Ukraine AND the media coverage. We share information from different media sources. Russian 1st Channel (their equivalent of BBC I guess) is shockingly propagandist and makes the BBC propaganda seem pretty tame (or at least it’s less subtle on 1st channel). I thought the Vice news guy (Simon Ostrovsky) was doing a good job for English speaking audience, getting across the slight madness of it all, and the complexity too. Our media is generally trying to keep it simple with a kind of good guys bad guys approach.
We’ll never know how many Crimeans actually wanted to join Russia, but does our media talk about how poor Crimea is/was, how much money Russia is talking about putting in, how much people’s pensions will rise now they’re part of Russia?
Another strange thing is that the divisions developing in Ukraine are quite sinister because they were division no more serious and no more organised than any European country (including UK) until hands that we may never no attached to whose arms started providing money and whatever other support. I’d say what’s going on is seriously exacerbated by the economic situation and the level of corruption that people have grown really fed up with, but the escalation is, for want of a better parallel, like the Orange order suddenly taking over the City Chambers in Glasgow (with guns) and running a referendum to return to London rule. People abroad would be told that this was a popular uprising.
Some people my wife knows are coming down on one side or the other, based a lot on anecdotes they are hearing from their families. None of the them are talking about Alex Salmond’s comments.
@crisiscult – Thanks for that it makes me wonder, as you said, what the motives are of the Association of Ukranians and why the FM has agreed to meet them.
Great article, Stu!
So many numbers bandied about, and no-one really knows the truth of it. The grass-roots pro-indy campaign has grown legs and ran away – a few weeks ago Blair Jenkins was quite pleased to admit that the YES movement is “out of his control”.
And BT moan about money. Perhaps they thought that they’d easily outspend the YES side with their rich Tory donors and southron money, and that’s before you factor in all the free advertising the MSM and the BBC give to the NO side.
But there are things you just cannot buy with money, like a grass-roots campaign of people who believe in their cause. (NOBs, take note 😀 )
It’s not about the money. It’s about people willing to give their time and effort canvassing, manning YES stalls, folding YES papers, making tea etc. etc. that is the essence and strength of the YES campaign.
Two years ago none of my Scottish friends were interested in politics and automatically assumed they’d vote no (or not at all). Last September some were on the indy march in Edinburgh and a couple are now actually volunteering for YES (Hi guys! I know you read Wings! 😀 )
This is, of course, only anecdotal. But if these people can be stirred out of their political apathy and inertia… Wow.
Scotland, you’ve really got a movement on your hands.
It’s good to know that the YES side is fairly well-funded. The Weirs’ donations are actually a bit embarassing (though they can well afford it, and everybody on the YES side is of course extremely grateful for their generosity) because it puts into shade all the thousands, tens of thousands, who’ve donated a pound or two or five or whatever. People who’ve donated within their means for something they believe in. Every donation, every pound, counts. Many small streams and all that. 🙂
The YES campaign has to be well-funded, to take on the British Establishment, the MSM and the BBC. A daunting task.
I’ve donated to Wings and a couple of other websites as they provide Scottish news, analysis and entertainment that I cannot get from the MSM but I have not donated a penny to YES Scotland or any sectoral/local YES fundraisers (however worthy they are!) because it’d be morally wrong. I won’t be in Scotland in time to have a vote.
(Well, I’ve bought a couple of T-shirts from the SNP or YES but that’s not a donation.)
@Tam Jardine
Foi request has been submitted. We’ll see what they come back with.
Just catching up having been away. All I’d like to add is that the Weir’s have wanted an Independent Scotland and it was their wish that their good fortune should help the ‘YES’ campaign and also the SNP. Now they did this because of their love of their country and unlike the unionists do not seek the tawdry baubles, the dead rats round their shoulders or an unelected seat in that place in London for they know that such rewards will not exist in the Constitution of the New Independent Scotland. To the Weirs I say a great big THANK YOU BOTH for YOUR GENEROSITY.
Auld Rock
Oh great.
I just wrote a long comment thanking crisiscult (and his wife) for their insights on the Ukraina/Russia situation, and the British media’s simplistic good guy/bad guy presentation of a very complex situation.
It seems all that has disappeared into cyberspace. 😀
As to associations of this, that or the other, membership isn’t compulsory so associations of X nationals in Z country aren’t democratic representatives of all X nationals in Z country.
These country associations are usually ignored but sometimes trotted out if their message resonates with the political establishment’s.
If posts disappear into cyberspace, ask yourself, were my line breaks compliant?
Sadly, I fear Dorice may have gone never to return because a post of his was zapped for that reason.
@Morag
It was full of line breaks. I’m the most line-break-compliant poster here!
Look above!
Or even here.
Maybe I used too many line breaks.
Anyway, what I wrote isn’t so important in the grand scheme of things. Just a bit frustrating personally that it zhwoozed away never to be seen again.
@lumilumi – I think it’s happened to all regular posters on WoS, not a personal thing..I think!
It’s never happened to me except for a couple of posts where I know I made a mistake with YouTube links. And Stu is deleting posts where he doesn’t like the formatting. Sometimes I think he’s a bit trigger-happy with it.
No worries, and I wasn’t taking it personally.
What I meant was that I was frustrated with myself that I hadn’t copied that post anywhere (and I’m usually a compulsive CTRL+S person).
I’ve seen so many regulars commenting that their comments have disappeared (due to the DDOS attacks etc.) and it’s never happended to me.
I feel baptized now. 😀
I wonder where LIBLABCon donations come from.
Out of pocket donations? How many thousands of Yessers have put their hands in their pockets when a whip round was called for for leaflets etc? £20 here and £20 there adds up to hundreds of thousands outside formal donations.