Walking the dinosaur
Many of you won’t have seen this quite extraordinary performance from the Guardian’s assistant editor Michael White on last night’s Scotland Tonight, and you really should.
White wrote a demented piece for the same paper yesterday along similar grounds, basically insisting that Alistair Carmichael mustn’t resign – despite having admitted lying to undermine the democratically-elected First Minister of Scotland – as a matter of political principle, that principle being that the SNP are fascists and have too many seats, and it was backed up by an almost equally insane editorial which, last time we looked, hadn’t attracted a single supportive comment from readers.
But on air White added a whole extra layer of patronising condescension, aimed at both Scottish voters and a heroically unruffled Lesley Riddoch, while barking a series of increasingly-senseless non-sequiturs that appeared to bear no relation to anything that either he or Riddoch had said just seconds before.
(White repeatedly demanded that the matter should be in the hands of constituents, which is exactly what Riddoch and everyone else is asking for – a rerun of the election but this time with voters in full possession of the facts – yet also insisted that Carmichael must remain in place for the next half-decade to stop that happening.)
White’s performance was so astonishingly unhinged on every conceivable level, so apparently calculated to offend and outrage the Scottish electorate, that the poor beseiged MP must have been watching it with his head in his hands, already reeling from the mayhem unleashed by Sir Malcolm Bruce’s eye-popping “defence” of him earlier in the day. Even we were starting to feel a bit sorry for Carmichael by the end, who in the preceding clips looked a sad and beaten man resigned to his fate.
Perhaps later we might ennumerate and analyse all the separate yelps of insanity. For now, just watch and marvel.
I didn’t realise that Michael Fish had changed careers. Anyway, this man personifies everything that is wrong with these metropolitan journalists. They are insular, arrogant and out of touch. Was it actually a masterstroke by STV to have him on air and offend every voter in the land?
On a wider note is just me being suspicious of any Labour Party involvement in this sordid affair? It’s just they are usually on BBC Scotland moaning about something, but they have been invisible since this story broke.
And this is exactly WHY the crowd funder is attracting so many donations!
This twat and his ilk pontificate on Scottish matters when they simply have no clue what the mood of the country actually is.
White represents everything that is wrong with journalism.
What a disgraceful interview. Disgraceful.
In the magazine issue I released last week I wrote about the media and why the profession no longer has the lustre and the honour it once did. This guy summed it up nicely.
I cannot think of a more appalling abrogation of media responsibility since the invasion of Iraq.
Scandalous. I can’t even fart loudly enough to express my contempt.
Thanks for uploading. Amazing bollocks from tacheboy.
Just watched it; I’m convinced Michael White doesn’t even know which words are coming out of his mouth.
Watched the original in full. My first impression was that the poor man doesn’t have long to go. He is clearly disturbed and ought to be pitied rather than censured.
Given his position, this, of course, makes him dangerous.
I have often wondered at the content of some of this guy’s scribblings. To see him here in all his arrogant glory persuades me that reading anything he writes is a waste of time. Does he really believe that Alex Salmond would not have had legal advice? I’ll bet that he hasn’t read GA Ponsonby’s recent exposure of the BBC.
Well done Lesley for keeping the heid and sticking to the point.
I hope my donation helps in its intended purpose.
The Grauniad defending privilege. Scott would be horrified. But its the same with the Labour party “defending” the right of those privileged to have a secure job to stamp on the faces of those without.
It wont change til the privileged are reminded why “benefits” was called social security
He needs to get a better spirit level for his moustache. Annoyingly squint. ah, ah, uh, uh, uh.
What an obnoxious git. When did Alex Salmond mislead the Scottish electorate regarding Scotlands relationship with the Eu? With friends like that, who needs enemies! Tick tock Carbuncle, tick tock ????
Glad I went to bed early last night and missed this; it would have prevented sleep. On just how many levels is this offensive, arrogant drivel? Hats off to Lesley Riddoch for maintaining a calm reasoned dignified perspective. Do people of his ilk have no moral compass?
O/T Queens speech ceremony. The poor and disabled must be enjoying watching where all the money being robbed from them is going. Never seen such a load of freeloaders.
Michael White is an absolute idiot and to think he gets paid to express opinions like that so poorly and with such false analogies is deeply saddening.
I like the bit around 7 mins 25 seconds where he gets so frustrated by Lesley Riddoch’s superior arguments that he makes the sound of an owl.
What a pathetic argument. I wonder what position the Guardian will take next time a Tory MP is caught lying and cheating?
Or is it just a generic unionist supporting rag now?
Irrespective of all else, a woeful exposition of whitabootery at its finest.
Get him tae …
Not sure Lesley was exactly unruffled… I think the fact that he wasn’t in the same room is all that kept her admittedly well restrained annoyance from burying him.
Patronising knob seems wholly inadequate.
He probably helped increase the donations to
‘The People Versus Carmichael’ legal fund.
Every cloud…………..
I watched and I marvelled … Could there be a greater constrast between Riddoch and White?
Riddoch sensible and logical putting forward a clear case.
White rambled without direction nor consistency but an undertone of SNP bad, UK OK.
I love the smell of Unionist fear in the evening/morning/anytime!
That disgrace should be good for another few thou on the crowdfund campaign and has also advanced the cause of independence no end. What an absolutely arrogant, patronising tosspot. And don’t get me started on the ‘tache.
You get the distinct impression that he thinks the whole thing and indeed anything to do with Scotland is beneath him, typical Westminster bubble attitude!
They just don’t get it, do they. We’re out of the box now and we’re not going back in.
Get used to it.
The mouser does his credibility no favours either.
Jeez, where did they dig up this geriatric spudtato heid?
First we get the demented Bruce teling us the truth for once, now this.
Shakes heid in disappointment.
For some reason html5 videos don’t run in the Android app. I had to use the youtube app instead.
But anyway White’s performance was ridiculous, patronising Lesley Riddell and twisting her words. He is also clearly not a democrat.
Should these two ridiculous witnesses for Mr Carmichael’s ‘defence’ not be referred to as – hostile?
Who are they going to dredge up today – Comical Ali – oh wait….
I started off thinking – who’s Michael White, then it became clear he’s one of those Lynton Crosbie spoke of recently who exist within the circumference of the M25 and speak mainly to themselves. Has anyone else noticed that after his meanderings he closed by saying it was a matter for Carmichaels constituents. An utterly self defeating exit line as that is exactly what Lesley had been saying. Very overbearing ill mannered little man who has done himself or his argument no good whatsoever. Keep up the good work Lesley!
Here is a man (White) long-overdue a trip to the ironmongers for a set of new hinges.
But today, we have Tavish Scott quoted as saying “very disappointed in Carmichael over Frenchgate, but resigning would let SNP and mob rule win”
I can’t say I’ve heard the SNP be overly vocal; the bulk of the noise is coming from the populace. Importantly, we’ve no idea as to the political make-up of the fund contributors or the various authors all over the MSM comments & social media expressing their feelings.
I would guess that there are many commenters from across the political spectrum, so angry are people at this basic underhand, costly and public charade from Carmichael.
So if I were Tavish & Co, I’d tread warily in throwing out generalisations under the “mob rule” moniker.
Methinks there is still a disturbing lack of feeling of the Scottish pulse going on.
Re KEU comment – Brown stole Whites moral compass!!!
While on the subject of patronising uninformed Metropolitan Media I have just received the latest copy of Private Eye.
It contains an parrogant hatchet-job profile of Tasmina Ahmed-Sheik emphasising her rather chequered political voyage – that was only to be expected.
However what really made my hackles rise was the description of our 56 in the opening para:-
“former members of The International Marxist Group, a bus load of town councillors, party apparatchiks, fading TV presenters and welfare rights officers. But among the Braveheart dreamers, useless time-servers and local authority drongos arriving in Westminster are some seriously ambitious Scots on the make.”
Private Eye is obviously not trying to increase its circulation in Scotland.
It was extraordinary to see the’ even if an opportunity and a will to change comes along, we shouldn’t’ attitude being displayed.
Oh my, sighs. What an obnoxious, arrogant prat of a man. His arguments were all over the place.
They in the bubble in London, still have no idea about what is going on in Scotland, but feel that they have the right to pontificate about us, what we do and what we think. They’re always off by a country mile. No clue waffle,waffle,waffle.
This is what as Lesley Riddoch says scunnered the people of Scotland. She corretly states that it’s for the electorate of Orkney & Shetland to decide on Carmichael. White then states it is for the constituency decide, but theyhave to deal with it 5 years down the line.
It is truly amazing to watch the establishment and their shills run round in circles, hyperventelating over this.
Good fun for us all the same. Carry on boys, we will get there all the quicker with this kind of help.
White is an old-fashioned English colonial.
The military clipped moustache is a give away!
He sounds very plausible when spouting liberal sentiments until, that is, an elected government appears somewhere in the world that questions England’s right to interfere or govern, or support US domination. If it does not agree with British interests White leaps upon his High Horse, the SNP landslide being a good case in point.
It does not matter that that administration was elected by the popular vote, with an occasional fair comment to mask his animus, White demeans it by innuendo and false logic. Only then do we get a glimpse into the severe limits of the Guardian’s ‘liberalism.’
We have Noam Chomsky’s own condemnation of the newspaper when they interpreted an interview he gave them and misrepresented him in the process.
Worth repeating:
I had the honour of ‘taking him on’ – if you’ll excuse the colloquialism – on the Guardian pages over three days when he tried to defame Chevez. I likened his invective to that thrown at Salmond.
White felt the comparison laughable and excessive and to my surprise opened a vigorous debate. At first I thought that action generous and democratic until, that is, his prejudices began to take shape.
I pointed out the comparisons, the right-wing newspapers concocting falsehoods and accusations each day, bosses of big business blackmailing workers, organised ‘protest’ from right-wing interests claiming loss of rights, and so on, and so forth.
Eventually White signed off saying I was’ ridiculing’ him.
You are guaranteed I ridiculed the colonial sod.
When it comes to a country’s rights and liberty take no prisoners.
I wonder how much of that £20,000 actually came from people in orkney and shetland.
Rev, sue White for infringement of copyright – he’s wearing a ‘Wings’ logo upsidedown under his nose without permission. Which is the most sensible thing he’s done in years. His argument has the consistency of Malcolm Bruce on speed.
As I said last night on twitter, for a senior editor he doesn’t half talk a lot of pish
Private Eye approach is that only the ‘right kind of people’ should go into politics. That means people like them.
It’s so cosy, the circle from Oxbridge, to media,to studios in London.
I can remember seeing Ian Hislop getting quite hot under the collar when it was mentioned he was born in Wales, or at least Paul Merton saying he was born in Wales. It clearly rankled.
Mr White takes the view that everyone lies. Well, ok. I agree that everyone lies about some things. However most people make a distinction between the kind of lies which are not aimed at self serving advantage, and those which are. If you tell your children that santa exists, you are lying. Are you trying to gain from that lie? Nope: it costs you an extra Xmas present, most likely. Are you harming that child? There are some who would say yes, but most people think not: you are adding a little magic to their lives in full knowledge that they will work out the truth in time.
Mr White sees no such distinction, however. For him a lie which is clearly designed to gain personal or political advantage; which is not shared as part of a cultural phenomenon, as santa is; which is not intended or expected to be shown as a lie in the natural course of events: is exactly the same as white lie with none of those characteristics.
In his universe there is no value in truth at all. There is no reason to prefer truth over lies. Presumably then, the rational thing to do is to presume that everyone is lying all of the time; and to tailor your behaviour to take account of that. Question is how?
If he and Mr Bruce are correct then I cannot choose who to vote for. For I cannot rely on anything they say they will do in a manifesto: nor can I vote for a “good chap”, because there aren’t any.
I am not personally opposed to the idea of staffing the house of commons as we choose juries: by pulling names out of a hat at random. I think the idea has merit, actually. In Mr White’s universe it is the only rational system, however, because that way of doing things means that they have no opportunity to lie to me in order to be elected. It will also ensure that all strands of society will be “represented” as a tweet from him yesterday said ought to happen: we will have murderers and bank robbers and drug dealers and plumbers and prostitutes and everyone: all in proportion to their numbers in the population. What is not to like? Course it depends on one particular meaning of the word “represent”, and it is not the one normally applied to the role of a politician, since that is usually taken to mean “speaks for and on behalf of”. But it is a perfectly legitimate use of the word, nonetheless. He trades on that ambiguity but we don’t have to. We can decide to found our system on the meaning he implied, if we like. If we do that, let us do so openly.
All societies depend on a foundation of honesty, whatever Mr White prefers to believe. It is obvious that there is a group of people in every society who exploit that basic truth, for their own ends. They lie, and they depend on the assumption of honesty to help them get away with it; indeed whenever we lie (and we all do) we always depend on that assumption. And that is because it normally holds true. It seems that Mr Bruce and Mr White are part of the group who do exploit that. And for their own peace of mind they choose to ignore the fact that it would not be possible unless most were not like them. I imagine it helps them to sleep at night.
But we MUST NOT allow that decadence to be further accepted: it is one of those self fulfilling things which leads to the destruction of society altogether. The downward spiral must be arrested, and the only way it can be is through public rejection and through effective law.
The crowd funder represents the re-assertion of those principles and it shows that we are not yet so lost to the idea of “society” as to have abandoned the legal underpinnings which ought to prevent this corruption. We, as the people, can and should make it plain that we do not wish to live in the hell that will result from accepting their vision. Nor do they. They are liars to this extent: if they had their way they could not function any more than anyone else. Because there would be no law of contract, nor any collective resistance to might is right. They need the majority to be honest in order to gain by lies: and at bottom they know this
The Guardian opinion piece is closed for comments now. Get your favourite comments archived off it, I expect it will get ‘accidentally’ wiped soon.
@gus1940 – I wouldn’t worry too much about Private Eye. Their stock trade is cynical world-weary dissection of those in power, which means pot shots at SNP MPs are as expected as any other party. The difference is that us here in Scotland have that unusual thing – hope for a better future through politics, and trust in our elected officials to stand against naked self-interest. This is anathema to Private Eye’s entire existence.
Assistant editor of a major newspaper,really? Can we trust now what his paper says? perhaps we should we ask its chairman Neil Berkett on his view? Maybe its ok to lie at the Guardian?
The sad fact is the at the world over Journalists are harassed tortured and sometimes killed, in finding and defending the truth, and this article of a man, an apologist for the un-defensible just scoffs.
If the law makers cant be trusted, and held to account by an free press, what chance do we have, what is left for a society that is so bereft of principal, so immune to malpractice in public office, that it calls widespread criminal activity by the legislature, a storm in a teacup!
Lesley Riddoch deserves a medal for managing to keep cool, polite and respectful in the face of this man’s arrogant and patronising ranting. I am absolutely raging after hearing this.
Please god, for the sake of all that’s decent let Scottish independence come soon.
It is interesting to compare the reactions of the local representatives of the political parties to the scandal in the Northern Isles.
Tories “don’t have opinion”, even some Lib Dems are condemning Carmichael. But guess which party managed to twist the whole thing into an “SNP Bad” bleatathon…???
I don’t know why Labour doesn’t just rename itself the “SNP Bad” Party. It would make it so much easier for the public to remember its policies on every single matter under the sun….
Could not watch it to the end. I’m left with the feeling Carmichaels predicament is entirely the fault of Salmond, Sturgeon and Scotland. If these entities did not exist, he would not have to lie. Simple.
Then my head exploded.
Suffered him for almost 2 minutes, even my partner who was sitting across the kitchen table asked “who is that idiot”?
The voters lied too, er! not at your end he says to Riddoch!
I read that he’s not turning up to hear Queenie today and Clegg will respond today on behalf of the Lib/dems.
Opportunity for Clegg to spill the political beans I would have thought. 🙂
PS:
Former MP Eric Joyce has avoided jail after attacking two teenagers in an ”unjustified and unprovoked” assault in a shop.
The 54-year-old attacked the boys aged 14 and 15 at News and Food Express in Chalk Farm, north London, on October 17.
District Judge John Zani, passing sentence at Westminster Magistrates’ Court, handed down a 10-week jail term suspended for two years and a £1,080 fine, and ordered that he must attend a rehabilitation programme which aims to reduce violent behaviour.
My total admiration for Lesley Riddoch for having to put up with that total choob for the entire interview. Very few could have endured that patronising shite, well done Lesley for keeping your cool!
Dinosaur nah this guy has just crawled out the primordial slime Rev.
Just when you think you have seen everything the britnats can fling at us up pops Michael White havering on about something to do with that devil Alex Salmond lying to the people of Scotland about something that never happened except in the britnat delusional mind,is it possible they have lied so much they can no longer remember what was a lie and what was not.
Go crawl back into the slime MW the good people of Scotland think you talk pish.
The Guardian editorial was as Stuart says equally demented. It was however highly revealing to read through the comments below the line – hundreds of them, uniformly hostile, with not a single voice raised in support.
Several of the comments were along the lines that this was the worst piece of tripe the Guardian had ever published. Nobody contradicted this view.
The people have awoken.
Carmichael must think there is a conspiracy to destroy him by his supporters, so far they have made the story bigger and his role sound even worse, and decried all of Westminster politics.
@ Yoda,
Ask Alastair, I’m sure he’ll give you an ‘honest’ answer
….
White rhymes with sh……….!
Towards the end of the interview, about 6.30,he slides away from letting the people decide and declares that Libdem activists will decide.
Oh good Grief!!
So it’s a storm in a tea cup??
Really?
I thought he tried to smear the first minister of Scotland with a general election going on and thought it was okay to release information to the public domain without any factual evidence! I think that’s more than a storm in a tea cup!!!
I wish Lesley had asked that man whether his attitude would have been exactly the same if it was Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP or any Scottish mp/ minister that had smeared the Prime Minister and a foreign diplomat and lied about it?
I tend to think ( call me a pessimist ) that the MSM would have gone into meltdown and probably trying to get her thrown in the Tower and The Scottish Government removed.
As always MSM try using that old trick of smearing and telling lies in order to justify why somebody who has smeared and told lies should remain in his job.
One hand feeds the other apparently which makes it all ok.
Surely a lot of Scottish Unionists, must listen to the attitude that these people have towards Scotland and re-think their political beliefs.
You’d have to be particularly thick to not see, that you are not British except in the role of providing wealth, land, and cannon fodder.
At least the No voters, did so because they felt it was in their own financial interest or in the case of a lot of the older voters, they fell for the pension scare tactics of BT/Labour, but to see Scottish people waving Union Flags, singing ‘Rule Britannia’ clearly believing that they are excepted as equals by the English, is stomach churning.
@ Yoda:
“I wonder how much of that £20,000 actually came from people in orkney and shetland.”
That’ll be that BetterTogether pooling and sharing kicking in at last, I expect.
Forgive me but I think Derek Bateman has got this right.
The establishment have this covered and lying in certain circumstances to protect UK is now acceptable. Carmichael proves this of UK system.
But real damage has been done here already – leave Carmichael to his shame. He is finished even though he has not the decency to go!
How are Tavish Scott and Liam McArthur going to fair with this stench during Holyrood elections. The longer his stench is around the more in the mire they will become tainted.
Maybe better to keep Carmichael around for the complete embarrassment he is.
May I agree with iheartScotland and say that I completely agree with their take on this interview. I doubt I would have been anywhere as polite a Lesley Riddoch. I did think nothing more the Scots love is an Englishman of his sort telling them what to think, do etc.
I struggle to pick through the bones of this,so I won’t,just a couple of observations.
LR Logical,Calm,Reasoned Argument,Assured,Open
MW Weak Argument,Pompous,Insulting,Closed
Like Percy Sugden had received Testosterone boosters and turned into Walter White,never seen this guy before hope to never see/hear him again,Dinosaur is accurate.
@James Forrest..
“I can’t even fart loudly enough to express my contempt.”
Thanks for that… Soup, meet keyboard.
I was laughing increasingly louder as the interview progressed, and when he said “we need opposition in politics to make politics work, even in Holyrood” I just lost it.
They all know Carmichael should go due to disgracing himself but yet again they put party before people and political gain before democracy, damaging themselves in the process.
They may continue to win the odd battle but they are most definitely losing the war.
Michael White’s twitter comments on the need for bad mps to represent bad constituents was just absurd and is an admission that Carmichael is a bad MP. It reeks of desperation. it’s fun watching them squirm 🙂
Well, that’s me just sent my donation to The People Versus Carmichael:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story
Some people are saying that Carmichael’s refusal to resign can only help move Scotland towards independence. I see what they’re getting at, but I don’t feel that the people of Orkney and Shetland should be denied a fair chance at democracy in the process.
Besides, the incredible mess that Carmichael and his cronies are making of his defence should be nearly as good for demonstrating the defects of Westminster anyway. This is going to be an amazing example for posterity no matter what happens.
That’s a thought – has anyone here actually seen a Unionist politician stand up and say that Carmichael should resign? The ones I’ve seen talking about it all seem to be too busy trying to push the “SNP BAD” line instead.
You’d think they’d have learned something from the “Saviour Jim” debacle, but now it seems the LibDems turn to experience the delights of “the more you foist unpleasantness upon people, the more votes you lose”.
I’m just wondering who they’ll wheel out next.
Classic Westminster arrogance and ignorance from a Red Tory.
White’s rant is just another sad reflection (along with the britnat editorials and Bell’s shameful racist scribblings) of the Guardian’s transformation into a spiteful little-englander rag.
What a dreadful shame that a once-great newspaper should come to this.
Thank god, therefore, for the National. I know it has its detractors but I’m not one of them
(It would be nice though if more folk started to post comments on their web-site – as far as I’m concerned the Guardian’s CiF is now so over-moderated it’s hardly worth the bother.)
Still relevant:
https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/spineless-lying-bastards/
https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/cook-caught-in-a-half-nelson/
Yep, saw it and thought Lesley showed remarkable forebearance given what I thought was intentional provocation. Jeez, he was talking about the “good people of Scotland”. I guess pompous, patronising, condescending etc. aren’t in his lexicon.
I’ve seen this gentleman before, on Sky News I think, as one of their “talking heads”. Talked mince then too.
They will shut up now after disaster “defences” and circle the wagons again. A “nice man really” vs angry SNP mob that cannot be allowed to inch closer to 59 seats or buy resignations. Prepared to be othered again and completely shut down by MSM on this.
Look forward to Tavish and Liam getting their jotters next year.
Tavish takes over from Bruce but can’t do more than put a lick of varnish on the ‘mess’ that Carmichael has left steaming outside the Lib/dem local constituency office. Phew!!
————————————————————-
Shetland Lib Dem MSP Tavish Scott said he was “very disappointed” by his colleague’s actions.
He said: “We have worked together for 14 years for Shetland. People come to see both of us to solve problems. I too feel let down. No wonder many people across the islands do too.
“But Alistair’s handling of this matter is not the Alistair I know.
“If he can demonstrate that he can get back to being a determined, effective local MP then people will accept that.
“Alistair has a long road to recovery with many people. But he should walk that road.”
Complaint to police
The parliamentary standards commissioner has received a number of complaints about Mr Carmichael’s conduct and is considering whether they fall within her remit.
A member of the public has made a complaint to Police Scotland, who said inquiries were being carried out to establish whether there had been any criminality.
———————————————————-
Memories or déjà vu all over again says Yogi Berra
Happy birthday for Tavish 6th May (he shares my birthdate along with teflon Tony) Geeez!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-13321726
Is he not just a bit of an embarrassment to the pretendy lefty Guardian, not much more to add.
Carmichael is a lame duck now and the whole thing is a shambles, indicative of establishment down in wm, sadly, they are in the position of making decisions about peoples lives and livelihoods, with queenies blessing.
Fiona at 11.38
Immensely enjoyed your post. Well argued.
Lesley Riddoch was reasoned, articulate and calm.
White was just a complete tosser. Unfortunately, Scotland will be on the receiving end of his ilk for the foreseeable future. All of them will help accomplish independence and for that I, perversely, thank them from the bottom of my heart 🙂
O/T apology
All evidence of claims expenses, pre – 2010, was destroyed by Westminster. Now they are deleting any mention of scandals and so on from MPs Wikipedia pages.
I wonder how long it will take for them to remove ‘Frenchgate memo leak’ from Alistair Carmichaels?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mps-expenses-sex-scandals-deleted-5764885
Hi Michael, I have just added a wee contribution and those good people of Orkney can thank you for it.
Grizzle McPuss says:
27 May, 2015 at 11:26 am
if I were Tavish & Co, I’d tread warily in throwing out generalisations under the “mob rule” moniker.
Indeed. These unionists can be such drama queens when things aren’t going their way. Apparently, the good people of orkney and Shetland, who want a second chance to vote (or not) for Carmichael are nothing more than a nazi lynch mob. Believe me, if this was “mob rule”, Carmichael would be dragged through the streets of Kirkwall with a burning tyre around his neck. That is mob rule.
No, what is happening is that a politician has behaved despicably and possibly illegally, and the little people are refusing to sit back and take it. We are playing them at their own game, according to their rules and winning. This is why they are in full panic mode. Lynch mobs and rioting in the streets they can handle, but taking them on at WM and in the courts? Squeak bum time!
I thought the night had hit a new low after seeing the late BBC Scotland News lead with 2 Scottish NHS bad stories and then Sarah Smith try(and fail) and trap SNP MSP( no Lib dems were available) regards lying and how all politicians are into it..and then came this mentalist.
Reminded me of Lionel Jeffries in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
The Guardian used to be the bible of the Brit “left” in Scotland, who did not read the Scottish newspapers, or listen to the Scottish “toy” news on television, bad though that was. What do these fading trendies do no for their inspiration>?
Words fail me. Another reason why their circulation is crashing.
Auld Rock
We really have to thank STV for setting this up – they must have known it would be an absolute belter.
Meanwhile over on the BBC-ZZZZZzzzzz2015.
If STV keep it up we may have a national broadcaster to replace the BBC altogether so STV really needs to be seen in the borders too.
The man has a white line just under his nose
I fear he must have been sniffing something
Other than stories!
It would explain why he has detached himself
From reality, common sense and any decency .
Had a similar demeanour to Captain Mannering
From Dad’s Army.
Anyway you lot are threatening the Westminster
Elites right to reign superior over the Scottish
Colony and the media. Scots Bad- All of you!
Like I commented last night about this guy “nasty piece of work”
It amazes me how such imbecilic donuts attain such high positions as the above eejit. That goes for 90% of the red Tories who got their jotters a few weeks ago too.
36% of the good folks of UK vote tory results in a majority government in WM and lets loose its manifesto = GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY
FPTP in Scotland returns 56 out of 59 seats to SNP = BAD FOR DEMOCRACY
I think that there is a mental illness flooding the MSM and WM state that really cannot be contended with.
I have never witnessed such a display of out right baffoonery than that given by Mr White last night
How he ever get to be a published journalist let alone assistant director of a national newspaper is beyond me.
Values at the top matter.
White just isn’t very bright when it comes right down to it. He splutters and flounders as his low IQ tries to cope with anything more advanced than his establishment mantra and spin of SNP bad/westminster good.
His laughable attempts to the be the Guardian’s own Katie Hopkins really boil down to an out of touch old coot desperately clinging to any kind of limelight as he realises he’s become an embarrassment and a compete and utter irrelevance.
Pretty much like the lib dems then. 😉
LOL 😀
“Mob rule” is an interesting concept.
As it is normally used it carries an implication of violence, but it need not have that as a feature. What distinguishes mob rule from democracy is the fact that it necessarily excludes the rule of law which protects minorities. It operates without reference to formal proceedings which require the testing of evidence, nor any concept of the good of the whole community. Mob rule assumes that a majority agree with the action taken, without employing a mechanism for establishing that: and it denies any floor under what can be done on grounds of anything akin to human rights. It is closely allied to the “tyranny of the majority” but it is not the same, because there is no need to ensure it actually is a majority: those who make a lot of noise merely assert that they are a majority, rather.
We do not see it very often in this country. Most people, while often frustrated by the law in practice, are fully committed to the rule of law as a fundamentally good thing. And that is how they behave.
But we do see it sometimes. Most usually we see it in the behaviour of the media: what is sometimes called “trial by tabloid”. In those instances people are encouraged to indignation or anger against some individual, or group. Insofar as the media succeed in inculcating those feelings they act as the “ringleaders” for the “mob”. They claim, without evidence, to speak for the majority. They call for action outside due process on the grounds that the powers that be are not protecting the rights of the readership etc. It is mob rule in quite a pure form, and Mr White’s profession really like it when it suits. It is beyond irresponsible.
Compare such media campaigns with the current issue. Here there are many people who are very angry with Mr Carmichael. What they have chosen to do is to use the law in order to test his position. The law is not easy to use because of the costs involved, and they have found a way to make that possible, through the crowd funding. This is what Mr White and his pals are pleased to call “mob rule”. You would be forgiven for thinking he was damn near illiterate, if you did not know he was a journalist
I think it is quite important, when listening to these entitled fops, to think quite hard about what words mean. They always use them to obscure rather than to clarify.
“Mob rule” is a term used advisedly in this context. It is a boo word because of its association with violence. To bring it into a debate is an attempt to close discussion, as boo words always are. But it has a real meaning, and beyond the appeal to emotion and prejudice, there is something real to discuss. What is happening here is not mob rule, by any stretch of the imagination. Those who are bandying it about know that fine.
We should ensure that they are not permitted to gain any traction by slinging what is effectively an inaccurate insult, and nothing more
Tavish Scott
“But Alistair’s handling of this matter is not the Alistair I know.”
Does this remark reveal that Tavish is no judge of character or that Alistair is capable of deceiving even thos who are closest to him ?
Orkney appeal The People v Carmichael now over the halfway mark £30,085. Make it so.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael/x/6515990#/story
Last post went into the mists, but basically the incoherent defending the indefensible.
Mr White cannot possibly conceptualise what is occurring within the Scottish electorate. It is beyond foreign to his nature and his world view, it is fully alien to it.
Good.
Its about time the metro commentariat realised its a big wide world out there. That strangely its inhabitants don’t like to be pigeonholed or labelled by condescending or arrogant people living in a myopic bubble who haven’t walked a mile in their shoes.
I’m sure that for Mr White the world of Westminster politics and how it operates is just peachy. The deals, the juicy leaks (fabricated or otherwise), the scandals, the smear, fear, power, privilege and cash (lets not forget the cash). How and ever it may at some point be polite for someone to drag Mr White to one side and point out (hopefully none too gently), that for those of us who don’t live in his rarified atmo, that we’re no too happy about being used as electoral punch bags and dupes by these self serving pricks. That perhaps we’re a bit fed up of being manipulated by party politics and their media symbiotes, we’d rather they just do as they are expected and paid very handsomely to do.
Honesty isn’t just a virtue, an ideal to be sneered at by over privileged hacks and politicians, its kinda fucking essential for the people to have faith and trust in their system of government and those it chooses to administer that governance. If people feel they can trust their representatives word, rely on the honesty and integrity of their governmental institutions, then both receive the loyalty of the public.
When they feel they cannot trust either their representatives or their institutions… well let’s just say that May 7th won’t be the last democratic upset Mr White will be witness to.
@ Macnakamura
That is a good question
I saw yesterday that Mr Clegg had categorically stated that Mr Carmichael was not involved in the “leak”, before he admitted that he was. I am prepared to believe that Mr Carmichael had lied to him as well.
Osakisushi 11:43
I managed to stick it out to the end, with great difficulty, but I agree wholeheartedly with your analysis. All that’s bad in the world is the fault of SNP and Scotland.
Read that Guardian article.
Stu is right absolutely demented rubbish.
That man needs help.
Excellent performance from Lesley Riddoch, well done Lesley.
Just one question, can someone tell me why STV opted to have that stuttering sack of White shite on to defend Sally Carbuncle and not someone from The Torygraph, Carbuncles partners in crime?
@ Macart
I agree with what you say, but I would add that I believe this is not just happening in Scotland. People in the rest of the UK also increasingly recognise that something is rotten in the state of Westminster. We have a head start, having both an alternative to compare it to, and more instances of outright lying directed towards us. But rUK folk can see some of it, not least in this particular case, and are also outraged by the faux cynicism they are expected to adopt in response.
Mr White is not particularly anti scottish; though he is that. It is a subset of his general position, which is anti democracy. He is far from alone in his circle.
The problem before everyone is this: do we accept that this is inevitable, that all politicians and all powerful people will lie as a matter of course, and we should accept this? Or do we reject that position, believing it does not have to be so, if we as the electorate choose? We do still have mechanisms for changing it. For a long time the plutocrats have worked together to disguise that fact, and simultaneously to portray anyone who thinks we can change it as naive or utopian. If we accept that it is to some extent our own fault. They have not yet dismantled the means to hold them to a higher standard. And it can be done. If they know for certain they will be turfed out if they do not stay within what the rest of us think of as perfectly attainable standards of behaviour, they will behave better. As educationists know, children do better if expectations are high: as for children, so for the elite.
Does it matter where the donations to the legal fund come from? I’m about 650 miles from O & S, though hope to move closer. It’s the first opportunity in this new parliament for the voters to impose some morality on their representatives.
My English tenner was the result of the good Sir Malcolm’s contribution. I see they’ve reached half way, and the average contribution was about £16. That’s very democratic.
I watched this on STV last night, thought Michael White was a total dipstick then and I haven’t changed my mind after hearing it again.
The uber right wing, arrogant, little twat could do with a swift kick up the arse. What a weaselly wee man.
Not sure why the official report is being portrayed as a whitewash.
https://archive.is/GE2bt
and highlighted that the memo had stated that part of the conversation between the French Ambassador and the First Minister might well have been “lost in translation”.
Mr Roddin confirmed that he provided a copy of the Scotland Office memo to a Daily Telegraph journalist on 1 April 2015, and discussed the memo with the journalist on a number of occasions.
…
Mr Carmichael agreed that this should occur. He recognises that, as a Secretary of State, he was responsible for his own conduct and that of his Special Adviser. He could and should have stopped the sharing of the memo and accordingly accepts responsibility for what occurred
Are the salient points.
The memo said it’s writer thought it was of doubtful accuracy. The Telegraph had a complete copy of it and chose not to withhold that point for political reasons. The memo itself did not provide any proof that what was being said in private was different to what was being said in public.
The last extract is the most damning as it disposes of any fall back on public interest as a defense. Carmichael has agreed he “could and should have stopped” it. He has conceded that there was no public interest involved.
A quick google found this,
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/228774/7863.pdf
Misconduct in Public Office can, if of a serious enough nature, be a criminal offence. It can constitute also constitute a breach of the Official Secrets Act. The document also lights on political motivation rather than public interest.
When Carmicheal said what was being said in public was being different from what was being said in private he can only be referring to what Nicola Sturgeon was saying. As such his only motivation was to attack the leader of a party during an ongoing election campaign. It beggars belief that that can be thought of as anything other than political motivation.
Also note that both his Spad and himself have accepted a loss of remuneration as an initial punishment for the offence they caused.
As the document I linked points out though, the police can and will get involved. In this case the fun part is that said offence may have originated in Scotland depending on where AC happened to be seated at that moment in time. We could well see the scottish police, under control of Holyrood, being in charge of any investigation.
Oh ffs, what a twat! Riddoch as impressive as I’ve ever seen/heard her, though.
@Robert Roddick says: 27 May, 2015 at 11:06 am:
“Does he really believe that Alex Salmond would not have had legal advice?”
Actually, Robert, Salmond not only didn’t lie but he referred himself to the Parliamentary Standards Committee who cleared him. However, if you ask anyof these idiots making that claim they will be unable to tell you where and when he is supposed to have made the claim.
It was a absolute lie to begin with and a bigger one ever since. Some of the accusers will attempt to say he made the claim in the TV interview with Andrew Neil. However, all that interview proves is the accuser cannot comprehend the English language.
The Question Neil asked Salmond in that interview was, “Have you sought legal advice from your Scottish Legal Officers on the matter”. So perhaps, when idiots like Michael White, make such claims they should be asked first when Salmond made the claim and if they say in the Neil Interview, confront them with the fact that the question asked had nothing whatsoever to do with EU legal advice.
So there you go – a trumped up charge in defence of a very obvious proven set of lies. Michael White is thus a proven liar and Lesley should have demanded HE resigned.
Im glad, I cancelled my guardian subscription before the referendu.
More so after seeing Michael whites demented ranting on scotland tonight.
The guardian is no better than the mail or
any other national paper when it comes to Scotland. Hes plainly rattled that he sees the writing on the wall for the union.
What a wonderful example of the fearless seekers out of Truth we associate with The Grauniad.
“Je suis Michael?” I don’t think so.We barely have a free press in the UK. It mostly exists now to shore up the privileges of The Establishment at everyone else’s expense. However, I really love the exposure these UKOK crazies get. Just another brick in the wall.
He’s lucky he wasn’t in the same studio as Lesley because he may have experienced gonad repositioning once they were off-air.
Commendable restraint, LR.
@Jim Thomson says: 27 May, 2015 at 11:09 am:
“He needs to get a better spirit level for his moustache. Annoyingly squint. ah, ah, uh, uh, uh”
Naw! Jim, the ‘tash is dead straight, it’s the reset o him that’s aw squint.
Watching that sanctimonious, arrogant and uninformed eejit and all I can think of is to have our 56 back home well away from the likes of Mr White!
I hope it’s not catching. 🙁
Carmichael, the Union and the Empire
From the viewpoint of the Westminster Unionist Establishment in London, the Northern Isles is an outpost of the Unionist Empire, under the ‘management’ of the sitting Unionist MP Alistair Carmichael, a former Government Minister. If Carmichael loses his position, then the last northern outpost becomes South Edinburgh and the Empire has shrunk considerably.
The Establishment persists with the idea of the UK as a ‘force in the world ‘, but to be that, the Union must be kept intact, and for that to happen, as they see it, the Unionist former Government Minister, Carmichael, must be kept on in the Northern Isles.
Might I suggest, we all of us try to learn to see things as they do; if we do, we will be better prepared for the challenges still to come in the journey to Independence.
Maintaining power over the Union is the British Establishment’s highest priority, which is why most of what this Tory Government does, is in that context.
To Cameron and crew, the constituents in O & S simply don’t matter a jot. For Cameron, it’s not about democracy, it’s about Power.
Its certainly a clash of UKOK unionist version of reality and what actually happened as in Salmond, EU legal advice and then being re-elected to Westminster. Scotland watched the Britnat press rage and gave their opinion.
Presumably all red and blue tory Britnats like White are content to let Carmichael stay in office for five years but if an SNP candidate had lied like a Carmichael, said candidate would then be subjected to the BBC/UKOK media fury that Salmond had to contend with over EU legal advice?
But as per, there’s now a BBC/teamGB media black out on Carmichael. Funny that.
White stated categorically on Twitter that one shouldn’t “place the mortgage” on Jim Murphy losing Renfrewshire East.
Another seer of Robertson/McTernan proportions, then.
Day one of the campaign to raise funds to take Carmichael to court #carmichaelmustgo
“First point is that £26,353 was raised by 1627 people. There have been a few donations of more than £100, the biggest has been £1000 – nearly all the others have been in the £5 – £30 range. This is a real campaign of the people, ordinary folk, Carmichael’s constituents.”
“Bloggers have been enthusiastic and are making all the difference to the campaign- particular thanks to wingsoverscotland and the wee ginger dug. At the time of writing, 452 people from wings have raised over £9,000.”
Well done to the Wingers, still a ways to go. Let’s make history.
http://theorkneyvole.com/
@Yoda says: 27 May, 2015 at 11:32 am:
“I wonder how much of that £20,000 actually came from people in orkney and shetland.”
Why?
Oh! BTW: Your shift key seems to be stuck, (or is that just your sneaky little way of insulting them)?
Definite shades of the mad highlander on question time. Must be a Brit Nat trait.
@Fiona
Couldn’t agree more. We need to set the bar high and then keep it there.
If we accept the current system as the way things are done, then quite literally we write Westminster and its political class a blank cheque, we sign our name to whatever excesses and practices it can dream of. The line has to be drawn by the public themselves for only they have the power to put a stop to these practices.
I also agree that people right across the UK are slowly waking up to the fact that our current system of government is unfit for purpose, but clearly not enough to halt the result of the last election. It will take time for them, just as it has done for the Scottish electorate, to undo decades of political and media brainwashing. It will take time for such a movement to coalesce into a collective will and movement for change. Their best chance IMO, is for Scotland to set an example and give them the impetus and belief that people in the street can make a peaceful, powerful and democratic difference.
No matter how these demented liars try to deflect and twist the situation it doesn’t alter the fact that the whole sorry ill advised leak of the memo was meant to quash Nicola’s excellent leaders debate standing with the voting public.
To further the ends of Cameron’s Conservative party and stick it to hapless Milliband.
No amount of smoke can separate the connection between Carmichael/Rennie/Mundell/Cameron and throw in the ever ready’impartial’civil service.
The whole thing stinks and it’s not going away anytime soon.
Don’t forget Cameron got elected on the back of monstering Scotland,Nicola and the SNP
The Guardian operates on a false premise. They themselves are liars. How ironic. How hypocritical.
How so? They declare themselves to be “progressive” and “left-leaning” when they are in fact the diametric opposite, ‘regressive’ and ‘right-leaning’.
The rot set in with the appointment of Rusbridger as editor. Yes, there was fine work done with the exposés of Snowdon, but do remember that the journalist Greenwald was the ‘real’ conduit to the release of Snowdon’s revelations. The Guardian then complied meekly to GCHQ’s demands for destruction of hard drives. No further revelations have been published since. Now Greenwald is a ‘former’ Guardian journalist…
Then there was the Chelsea Manning exposés via Wikileaks and Assange. Soon enough the Guardian went quiet on that and turned on Assange who now resides in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London…
The Scottish referendum was the catalyst for the Guardian to finally out itself as no more than yet another of the UK’s right-wing and corrupt MSM. The stream of articles and editorials rubbishing and negating Scotland’s hopes for independence became a flood as 18.09.14 neared. Indeed, they became no more than full-on Britnat UKOK Better Together lying, misinforming, sneering, smearing, scaremongering ranting.
They have their ‘proclaimed’ CiF which has now become a place of residence for the right-wing demented troll. Go to any article that is Scottish-based in content where comments are allowed BTL and see the abuse and lies about Scotland, the Scots and the SNP come pouring in. Do these comments get moderated? Mostly no. Try posting comments complaining of the offensiveness or making a strong case for the misinformation contained in the ATL article – often as not, moderated or even ‘disappeared’ completely.
White’s performance last night is indicative of the Guardian’s political mindset. Read what White himself wrote in his capacity of deputy-editor in yesterday’s Guardian – demented hate-speech by a demented man.
Then there is yesterday’s Guardian editorial defending lying and illegality in government… as long as its against the SNP. It is an absolute shameful disgrace.
The Guardian: liars, frauds, phonies and hypocrites, and supporters of government lies, dirty tricks and illegality.
lesley Riddoch doesent stay in O/Shetands , (true). Michael White doesent stay in O/Shetland, (true) nae quess’s who,s got their fingers on the pulse of Scottish Political scene,an its certainly not ah London Establishment BumHack.
Q: What’s small wrinkly and smells of pish?
A: Yoda.
Stephen.
Well done Lesley Riddoch, you are an intellectual Goddess.
One of my hero’s since the referendum.
The moustache gives the game away. The judgement of Anyone happy to go about with that on his face is obviously not very good.
They just cannot admit the severity of Carmichael’s ‘mistake’. It wasn’t a mistake. It was a cold calculated attempt to smear an opponent and pervert the electoral outcome. The deliberate leak of a doctored classified document carried the purpose of defamating the FM in order to obtain electoral advantage.
He then continued to lie, allowing an inquiry to be carried out, at whatever expense to the taxpayer, knowledgeable all along that he was the guilty party.
Strange how Labour and the Tories have been relatively quiet on the subject. Perhaps they don’t want Carmicheal telling the truth for once, hence the reason he’s still clinging on.
As for that reality detached waffling idiot, does it surprise anyone? There’s nobody in that bubble has a clue what’s going on up here, and their attempts to smear us are only stoking the fire. Keep ’em coming.
“I would guess that there are many commenters from across the political spectrum, so angry are people at this basic underhand, costly and public charade from Carmichael.”
I’ve voted Lib Dem, Green and SNP. I’d like to see the Lib Dems get back to their proper (left-leaning) roots and become something of a valid parliamentary force again to give me an alternative to vote for in certain situations but they can’t do that with Carmichael clinging on. It utterly ruins their credibility and the party needs to start thinking seriously about improving its image.
Just added my helping hand to the fundraiser for the folk of Orkney and Shetland.
Now standing just shy of £31,000
Liers and shysters insult Scotland at their peril – this is just the start. Let the world see how democracy, the law and people power can deflate the pompous and arrogant.
All he did was get me to contribute to a crowd funder for the very first time, so angry did he get me.
@Yoda
Talking pish you are again. Most of the No campaigns dirty money came from outwith Scotland. So the fact I don’t live in O&S matters not to me, so GIRUY!
thomaspotter2014 says:
“Don’t forget Cameron got elected on the back of monstering Scotland,Nicola and the SNP”
While it’s difficult to precisely pin down cause and effect when it comes down to voting choice …. I tend to agree with you. The Tories moved ahead by using the SNP ‘threat’ of some sort of alliance with Labour.
It follows that if Memogate was in fact bigger than just Carmichael’s office, then it was perhaps part of the wider LibDem / Tory strategy to damage Labour in England, and try to keep LibDem seats in Scotland.
Use of the memo was delayed. The actual release timing suited a Tory agenda more so than just a Carmichael one. Also, the timing of the final report seems odd – late and just before a Bank Holiday. This perhaps implies wider collusion.
Seems more like the original Watergate every day. How high did it go?
Iain More
I would hope that some of the money comes from voters in rUK. This is not just a local matter: it goes to the heart of Westminster corruption. MSM do not see it as local: hence Mr White’s intervention. Nobody else should either
@Yoda says: 27 May, 2015 at 11:32 am:
“I wonder how much of that £20,000 actually came from people in orkney and shetland.”
Doesn’t matter if it came from Orkney, Shetland, Edinburgh, Glasgow or even London.
It came from like minded people who think the Law isn’t just there to protect the rich and privileged. If Carmichael shamelessly will not go of his own volition then there is a legal process to test whether he has broken election Law. He can either resign or defend himself.
On a personal note: I just want to see the back of the lying scumbag and if my few pensioner’s pennies help get shot of him then it’s my money and it’s well spent.
I saw this last night and couldnt quite believe what i was watching!The man was practically foaming at the mouth anti-SNP/Scottish/Lesley Riddoch.And he writes for the Guardian? Might as well have got some loon from the Mail,or Daily Express to be honest.
What an utter tosser that patronising, moustachioed clown from the Guardian is. Well done Lesley Riddoch in not reacting to that complete prick !
Michael White – lifestyle journalist from a lifestyle paper
Having read comments here I won’t watch the clip as I don’t want to raise the blood pressure. Definitely not surprised though having seen the guardians treatment of nafeez Ahmed over his reporting on Israel. He’s well worth following BTW.
What a bam! An incoherent, self-regarding and specious selection of febrile offal passing itself off as informed opinion. Starving rats wouldn’t eat the garbage falling from this pseud’s gub.
Thieves believe everybody steals when the opportunity arises, adulterers believe no spouse is really faithful and liars believe everyone lies. All they are doing with such claims is exposing their own true natures.
But it is probably just simple observation of reality when someone turns over a rock and says “There lies a LibDem”.
Michael White should resign or be sacked. Michael White is a liar.
Scotland Tonight is nonsense
I’m afraid that it’s stuff about truth and identity that really gets me going. More so than some unfair tax that happens to be in force at a particular time. We cant let this type of thinking pass.
Michael White is an irritable clown whose main claim to fame should be that he’s got something oops upside his nose. And I can only think that the hooting noise towards the end was The Owl Of Minerva taking flight at dusk.
(Meanwhile Steve Bell is back to his old tricks. Apparently what happened on 18 Sept was that the Scottish lion farted.)
@Iain More says: 27 May, 2015 at 1:59 pm:
“All he did was get me to contribute to a crowd funder for the very first time, so angry did he get me.
Me too, Iain and I lobbed in a bit over the average, which for an OAP is not too easy on the wallet, but I was quite angry. not your hot headed angry but a real icy cold angry.
For your @Yoda post –” … Talking pish you are again. Most of the No campaigns dirty money came from outwith Scotland. So the fact I don’t live in O&S matters not to me, so GIRUY!”
Aye! Iain, and Yoda is probably a paid for troll from south of the border too. He/she probably knows the score but it is not in the job description. Unless you really intend the things you post to the likes of Yoda for the eyes of the forum then best to ignore the obvious cack handed attempts to get up our collective noses.
Ian Hisop’s father and grandfather came from Ayrshire. ‘Quaker?’
Most of the comments over the last few days in the media (mainstream and social) are about Carmichael’s lie influencing the election result in his own constituency. When the “Nicola wants Dave” scandal first broke it was given top billing on tv and radio news and was on the front page of most newspapers. It wasn’t a local issue, it dominated UK headlines for days. We saw the unionist machine leaping at a chance to smear the SNP. That countrywide propaganda campaign must have influenced a lot of people outside of Orkney & Shetland, maybe even as far away as Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale.
Mundell and Murray didn’t hold onto their seats by much. How much did Carmichael’s lie help them?
When the Guardian takes its head office and journalists back to Manchester it might be worth reading and listening to.
Until then they are just another empty media bubble.
Nice of matron to let him stay up so late.
And what was that thing on his lip?
@ Sandra
It was the internationally recognised symbol of his superiority: aka as the honourable order of the British Loony In Military Posture (BLIMP)
Oh Alistair what have you done, now you’ll have to sit like that for the next 5 years you silly boy!
http://tinyurl.com/pcrxk82
I have genuinely reached the zenith of my own personal “scunnerdom” with London commentators on Scottish politics. Their attitude towards Scotland, as typified by White, is “get back into your f…..g box and don’t bother us. We are metropolitan sophisticates who know best”.
They really do not get what has happened up here over these past four years (and before) and do not show any signs of trying to understand the situation. Carmichael’s deed was despicable and it was then compounded by a blatant and bare faced lie. The fact the Michael White, one of the darlings of the London chattering classes, is prepared to try to defend him demonstrates his contempt for the many thousands of Scottish voters who think that Carmichael has a clear case to answer.
@Fiona
Ah, thanks.
That’s not a moustache. That’s a fishtail nose.
This campaign to deal with Carmichael must be pursued to its proper conclusion. The corruption that is characteristic of Westminster and its supporting media has to be stood up to by the SNP and all other democrats. This is the first small battle of a campaign that must include action against those who lied to bring about the war in Iraq, exposing the perpetrators and those who have covered up the Westminster paedophile scandal and looking again at the proper regulation of the media. All the unionist parties AND the media will oppose us in this but that is the task that faces us. It is within this context of fighting corruption that we can best expose and oppose Tory policies. The bulk of ordinary people in rUK who are progressive will work with us if we lead the way.
The Scottish people are not daft, they know how difficult the task is but they will feel vindicated if they see their MP’s behaving as MP’s should.
Think Lesley might be on Question Time tonight – worth watching?
Michael White uses the same basic argument as has been used for millenia to justify wrongdoing. It’s the same argument that was used by the English at Culloden, the Arab slave traders in 19th. century Africa, the Nazis in the ’30’s and the British in their colonial wars.
It’s this: ‘We don’t give a bugger what you say ‘cos we’re in charge and couldn’t give a flying f… whether it’s right or wrong. You think it’s not fair? Well tough, because we couldn’t give a toss’
I feel we’re missing the main scandal here; this man White has a job?! A man who hasn’t the sense to wear his glasses while trimming his moustache?
And am I missing something re Alex Salmond misleading Scotland over EU?
Once again impressed by Lesley Riddoch. Scotland seems awash with high-end political brains on the indy side.
And I wish we would all treat this Yoda chap as if he was a unionist rag – ignore it!
@Fiona,I would just like to say what a pleasure it always is to read your comments, especially the longer ones; they are thoughtful, well-written, cohesive, cogently argued, and are thus truly informative.
I always look forward to reading your take on matters.
Why didn’t John McKay say at the end “But that is what Lesley was saying” instead of saying “That is all we have time for”, I would have loved to have seen the look oan tha eejit’s napper when he realises he fecked up.
Maybe John Mackay’s questions were lost in translation!
as Robert says
“Actually Salmond not only didn’t lie but he referred himself to the Parliamentary Standards Committee who cleared him. However, if you ask anyof these idiots making that claim they will be unable to tell you where and when he is supposed to have made the claim.”
What is interesting here is not that spurious claim but the fact that all those defending Carmichael are using it (and it alone)which indicates that the defence of him is coordinated across the unionist board (just as the plot to smear Nicola will have been arranged at the highest level with Carmichael chosen to be the fall guy)
I’m sure I will be corrected if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Michael White the same person punched by Gordon Brown. Now I can understand why.
Michael white…… what a bawbag! More worrying tho…. WTF is going on with that tash?!
@ Xaracen
Thank you. I am never sure if my long posts are read, cos I do realise it can be a bit daunting to face a wall of text. But I am incorrigible. I never seem to be able to construct an argument concisely. So you have reassured me 🙂
Hi Fiona.
Just remember the regular paragraph breaks – I’d hate to see you attacked by hammers!
8=)
@ Brian Doonthetoon
If such a fate should befall me you would never see it: I would just disappear, probably under cover of night. Rev Stu is sneaky that way.
Have just got around to watching this right through for the first time.
Have to say, I do believe White is drunk.
Last week Radio Scotland broadcast an Eadie Stark (forgive spelling if wrong) interview with a dude who was editor of the South Side News (as well as being a lawyer earlier in his life) and he confessed, quite openly, that as a newspaperman, working for national titles, the drinking culture was quite beyond the ken of mere mortals. They could drink ‘on expenses’. He reckoned that, at his worst (before his doc told him he had just a few months if he didn’t pack it in) he was going through the equivalent of two and a half BOTTLES of whisky a day. And, according to him, no-one knew.
I’ve seen Michael White, over the decades, many many times. But I’ve not been watching television for, what, three years now, so when I see these people again it’s a bit of a shock. That’s not the Michael White I remember – not only has he ‘aged’ (naturally), but he sounds slower, is slurring slightly, and that blunt rudeness (as opposed to suave sarcasm), lack of coherence in argument, and general cantankerousness points to him being pished.
Not having a go at the guy here if he is – people in glass houses an aw that – but it should be borne in mind by folk who are scanning the piece critically. If he is drunk, then that should be taken into account when assessing just how pompous a prick he really is.
Well if he is drunk he is not one of those drunks who are “full of beery benevolence”, as my auntie used to say of my uncle and my dad when they came home. That much is clear
Alcoholics make poor decisions.
There are no longer demented Unionist politicians to appear on these ignorant programmes, so they get their twisted ‘journalists’ lying friends to appear for a fat fee. The lying MSM. .
What a Muppet Michael white is, has he got a license for that poor unfortunate animal up there on his lip? It may be responsible for the utter sh*te spewing from his pompous gob. Carmichael is a devious manipulative liar that only wrote a letter type apologise because he had been found out, the letter was fabricated, and it is only ok to lie if you are a politician trying to smear your opponents … Time for a change, get the lying c**ts out of office, time for folk to elect honest politicians and remove the right that rich self-serving idiots are automatically entitled to a seat in the house of commons
Wow! That Guardian bloke must think we’re complete morons north of the border (& south of it for that matter)…Couldn’t quite believe the nonsense he spewed. Once again I see reference to the insane thinking that it’s undemocratic for the SNP to have so many MPs” , really, the mind boggles!
Keep up the great work Wings Qver Scotland 🙂
Completely agree with you Robert.
Salmond did not lie.
Actually I am more annoyed at Lesley accepting the inference or at least not immediately rebuffing it.
When asked about specific legal advice on Scotland’s position in Europe Salmond refused to answer. That was not even avoidance but a matter of Ministerial Protocol. They are not allowed to confirm or deny such matters.
When later asked just about any legal advice on Europe he said yes because quite simply he had had legal advice on wording related to that subject the Scottish Government intended to publish. As he put it ‘to inform the debate’. Note the key word there ‘debate’ which itself implies something not settled or finalised.
Neil chose to, IMO, maliciously conflate the two and with the help of a compliant UMSM, somewhat successfully, to turn mythology into perceived reality.
Even the Law Officer who unprecedentedly came forward to confirm that he had in fact given that advice to the Scottish Government could not put that lie Genie back in the bottle.
So he thinks the SNP would rather have a Tory Government than to have had case by case influence on a minority Labour one?
What a maroon.
Fi says:
“Wow! That Guardian bloke must think we’re complete morons north of the border (& south of it for that matter)…Couldn’t quite believe the nonsense he spewed”
They have been led to think that for yonks, thanks to their North British colonial servants. Murphy believed theyr flattery and propaganda when he thought that the SNP was easy to fool.
I love the argument that “so and so lied and they are being processed through the courts, so it’s okay”
That’s like saying it’s okay to punch someone in the face because your cousin is awaiting sentencing for the same thing. Lots of people do it!
I am now of the opinion that it is really much better to ignore comments made by people like Michael White. The Blah Blah brigade relish the controversy they create at their usual targets, and we know who their targets are.
It has become so so predictable and boring when they unleash their torrents of abuse in the form of unwelcome and biased opinions.
‘Lets bait the CyberNats’ game is being won by them every time we respond to their drivel. I mean would you argue with an idiot in a pub who obviously didn’t know Jack shit. Surely not. Always better to ignore the idiot to shut him up.
Let’s be clever and not rise to the bait. Do we really care what they think ? No ! Is their argument worth contending ? No !
They have an agenda and think they can control and manipulate us. I for one do not want to participate in their games and much prefer to give my opinion on important issues. When a controversial comment is made solely to generate a negative reaction then surely it is better to treat it with the disdain it deserves.
We all know who the usual suspects are re scot bashing and SNPBAD so please just let them rant on to like minded people and lets not respond and waste energy on reacting to their uninformed drivel.
Hand on heart I could not, even after just listening to this interview with Mr White, remember or quote anything he said as it just seemed when listening to it that it added Nothing to the reality of Carmichael situation . So I filed it under usual shite not worth consideration.
These comments just a thought. Don’t shoot messenger as only my opinion.
ps. No smart party comments please re ‘ but you are commenting/responding ‘. No I am not , as I am not quoting anything he specifically said in interview , my comments are a general observation towards people like Mr White.
Have a nice evening everyone.
Alex Salmond was on ‘This Week’, with Andrew Neil, where he said that there had been a report into his alleged lie to Andrew Neil and he had been cleared of lying.